Anyone have any experience with these? I read Jared's thread on modifying/building his own.

From what I can gather contacting APR;
They use 2 different splitters, one without their front lip, one with.
What do they use to prevent air from going over the top of the splitter and below the front bumper? How does it seal? Installation guide doesn't seem to cover this at all.

When I do get a front lip, I assume all of the aftermarket ones don't align with the factory undertray, which uses the same mounting holes to install the front splitter, at this point am I better off buying my own piece of carbon fiber and cutting to shape?

In Jared's thread, he mentioned the deflection angles being junk with APR's, hopefully he can chime in here and give me a little guidance.

Just debating if this is something I even want to bother with, I figure I'd get some info from people that might have or may have used one.

Aerodynamics are one area I don't understand so well. I can't help from thinking that canards and splitters don't generate enough force for a 3,100 LB car to make a difference, any truth to this?

 

At higher speeds they actually do. A windsplitter decreases the amount of air that goes under the car and increases the speed of the air that travels underneath the car. this reduces air pressure thus sucking the car to the ground. Not all canards are as effective, but I'm sure if you try voltex' canards you will notice a difference at high speed corners: less understeer.

 

Oh Jason!! You just opened Pandora's box.. Tisk Tisk!!

 

LOL, it's always been a thing with me and aerodynamics. I compare the size of the wings on F1's and even dragsters to the ones we buy and it's hard to think they make any difference except maybe at extreme speeds.

Known info: The rear wing supplied on the Evo from the factory generates approximately 50LB of downforce at 100 MPH. It's mounted semi rigidly (yea yea trunk bump stops,etc let's not get over technical) to the trunk lid with approximately 2 sq.ft. of surface area.

Canards for instance, are mounted on a semi rigid surface, the plastic bumper. The leading edges are less than 2" wide with an overall surface area of about .25 fq/ft. This force is pulling down on the 2 pins under the fenderwells and the 2 10 MM bolts mounted in a nylon grommet. I tend to call BS

 

Canards aren't meant to generate down force. Their job is similar to that of our vortex generators. They disturb the air as it passes the front bumper in a way to allow it to be pulled into the wheel well thus aiding in the cooling of your brakes. You are correct with your bs call.

 

^^^ With all those assumptions why cant you logic your way into a formula to resolve your questions? Or research which sensors you will be hooking up to these lips for real-world testing? Or the CAD programs you will be implimenting to study the fluid dynamics of various designs?

I had a friend (#1) who would run his mind into circles debating the pro's and cons of these minor mods ad nauseum. Then I introduced him to another friend (#2) who does fluid dynamics for Boeing and has a masters of engineering from MIT. Then friend #1 told Friend #2 he was wrong but unable to support his theory.

In my circle Friend #1 isnt allowed to hypothesize verbally unless he has mathematical proof. (Friend #1 now hates cars but still gets himself confused about which kitty litter to buy based on property X,Y,Z with variables 1,2,3)

 

^^^ Total waste of internet space. Your comment is completely useless to this thread. Please stay on topic.

 

Then post up some evidence to support your hypothetical arguments! Or are you comming to the forum without an ounce of evidence either way and are asking others for input?

This thread is a waste of internet space.

Which brings up a more important question, as the internet isnt a physical place, what space is it taking up and how to measure that? oh, hell, i'll just start a new thread about that!

 

A proper splitter can have a really significant effect on downforce. Ideally, the underside of the car is smooth and properly designed for the splitter, and with a good diffuser. The spliter/diffuser/wing are tuned to get more, and balanced (front to rear), downforce (or at least less lift, depends on the car). I have no idea how much of the theoretical benefit of a splitter can be had by just bolting the thing onto a car not designed (or modded) for it. For sure the fore/aft position of the leading edge of the splitter, its angle relative to the ground, and its height above the ground, are important variables.

The canards will create some downforce - try sticking your hand out the window at 130 mph! They'll also create drag, not a problem for cars with hp like jid2's! They will create vortices along the sides of the car, I have no idea if these are significant in terms of brake cooling - I would guess not, at least not when just bolted to an evo without bodywork/ducts designed to work with the canards.

 

Technically it is a physical place...

 

Hello from pig flu central - my house.

1. Splitters work. The more surface area sticking out in front of the car the more force. The whole front end of the car turns into a higher pressure zone for the most part, and the splitter creates a horizontal surface for this pressure to push down on.

2. APR is not bad for the money. I'm not sure how things fit with an EVO 9 bumper, it's very specific to the bumper. The EVO 8 bumper is not flat on the bottom, it raises as it goes forward. So a splitter mounted to the bottom of an 8 bumper ends up pointing up a few degrees. This isn't horrible, but it lets more air under the car.

3. As for the size/lip, that depends on your plans. I think the way my modified splitter is it over powers my stock wing, which is why I'm building the GT wing. If you are keeping the stock wing you really don't need much up front - it will just make the rear end loose.

 

The thing to remember with any real aero mods is at what speed are their effective. Tooling to work/around a parking lot, not so much, but at pace at the track...yeah.

Even something as simple as the gurney flap + vortex generator on the IXs goes from an additional 2lbs of downforce at at about 60mph to 40lbs+ (from memory...you can go and search around for the post on that) at 100mph+.

Keep in mind that when you see the serious canards on the all out pro cars they usually don't just run them by themselves. They also have lips/splitters and so on and the total package is what makes the aero useful.

Its just like the folks who run the Vortex generators with no rear wing. Since the whole point of the VG was to disturb the air and create a disturbance right about where the stock wing height is (dig around for the wind tunnel pic that shows the air flow from the VG over a stock wing) without the wing its just there for style.

JID where is the link to your post on your aero builds? Be interested to see how that is going.

 

^You forget that the VGs may also be left for sheer laziness or I don't want to find out what is underneath it if removed.

 

Here are a couple. There are more but these are the best. Probably going to build bigger more shaped canards depending on the balance I can achieve when the wing is finished. I've had my sensor array for downforce logging sitting around for about a year now waiting for me to get around to the diffuser and GT wing - which finish the aero package. It will just be tweaks from there on out.

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/mo...er-action.html

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/mo...-diffuser.html

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/mo...g-gt-wing.html

 

Yeah not hating on those folks. Once a long time ago there were several people in the main forum who were convinced that a VG + no wing was still functional aero.

Nice thanks. Will take a read when I can.