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Timing map is weird. Big jumps around 5500-6000, but then only 13-14*, maybe 15*, out the top. Small turbo big motor can usually handle 16* or so from 7500 and up. But I don't where the car ends up for load. Post a data log.
You can also check the preload on the actuator. I like one turn or so . You don't want the gate cracking as its coming up. My 25psi actuator and setup make about 19-21psi with 0 duty cycle.
Dial up the WGDC at 2000-4000 on your E85 tune. I'd prefer a small spike and then add boost target in to keep shaft speed up. An example .
3000 - 25psi
3500 - 26 psi
4000 -27 psi
4500 -28 psi
5000 -29 psi
5500 -30psi
6000 - With that turbo you may want to start decreasing boost with the added backpressure.
Where does this car run for load? Those are some big jumps in timing after 5500. Those jumps and high backpressure up top may not be ideal.
Originally Posted by LetsGetThisDone
Timing map is weird. Big jumps around 5500-6000, but then only 13-14*, maybe 15*, out the top. Small turbo big motor can usually handle 16* or so from 7500 and up. But I don't where the car ends up for load. Post a data log.
Thanks for looking into these maps for me Gents, your advice is taken seriously and much appreciated.
I will definitely check out the wastegate arm and ensure there is a bit of preload on it. Right now I am able to hit 22 PSI peak on spring pressure with the 19psi wastegate that the TF06-18k comes with. Once I am back on the E85 map, I will increase the WGDC gradually such that I hit around 25psi at around 3000rpm up to 30 psi by 5500rpm while monitoring AFR and knock. I will also work on smoothing out the timing jumps after 5500. I think this will really help things out.
Last night, I switched over to the 91 map (E11 on the flexfuel gauge), my car started to idle rich. We're talking 12.6 AFR with STFTs maxed out -25. I looked at the speed density settings and could not find a sweet spot where the car would idle stoich and not lean out to death when moving the car. I checked out the injector scaling and latencies and sure enough, they were not right. I used your posted ID1300 scalings and latencies, Abacus, and it fixed the issue at once . The car idled at 14.7 stable with STFTs within 5%. After that, I went through the fuel map and tuned the car roughly for the appropriate AFR for each load column and rpm. So, this may have changed things now on the fuel tables I posted, but the timing tables are exactly the same from the initial tune. I think it's a far better place to be.
Here is a snippet from last nights datalog to get an idea of what load cells I am hitting. I am currently logging 1 byte load with no issues, making sure to use the 2 byte to 1 byte load factor in my evoscan formula:
Your on E85 with a small turbo. Crank it. My red made 38psi at 3700.
No reason to be babying it into boost unless it's making the turbo surge.
100% my man. Tonight I finished up rescaling and self tuning the 91 portion of the map and already made more power. I brought the turbo up to about 20-22 psi by 3750rpm (more boost earlier instead of just wastegate pressure) and adjusted WGDC table as well as fuel to keep it there safely throughout the entire run. I did add a little bit of timing to the midrange by just smoothing out the timing map, but that's about as far as I dared go with 91. I did manage to smooth out that initial fuel dip after this run.
Please let me know if you think the AFRs and timing are appropriate for this run. I'm really wondering if I should go richer between 3000 and 3500rpm? I read a few posts that stated that up to 3500rpm and under 13 psi is ok to run 12.6 AFR during spool.
I had some time to wire my Zeitronix wideband gauge analog output into the factory ECU rear o2 channel and enabled the AFR safety feature in the tephra V7 rom. I figured that I would set up the safety feature to cut high boost if AFRs go too lean.
If I am using the "Boost Desired Engine "PSI"" table to keep my target boost in line, would that be enough to keep the car from over boosting in the higher gears or do I still need to lower WGDC in the upper gears? I don't mind foolishly blasting the wheels off in first and second . I have my PSI adder value set to 22 psi to allow for higher input values in the E85 table later. Actual boost is 22.3 psi peak as seen by the datalog. (RazorLabs post: Boost Adder + Boost Desired Engine 'PSI' Table - Your atmospheric (baro) = your target boost.)
I hope to dial in E85 between Xmas and New years eve. This time boost is going up to 30 to 32 psi as soon as it can.
I'd prob run 1-2* less timing around 4000*, and then it (should) be able to take 7* by 7000, and 9* at 8000, unless your motor isn't 9:1. With less timing down low, it'll take more boost and the rods bearings will be happier. Then with the small turbo, boost will likely naturally taper up top.
With less timing down low, it'll take more boost. On pump gas, going a bit richer than full boost target during spool up keeps them happy.
Also, need to see knock voltage on the logs.
Last edited by LetsGetThisDone; Dec 25, 2022 at 11:55 AM.
I'd prob run 1-2* less timing around 4000*, and then it (should) be able to take 7* by 7000, and 9* at 8000, unless your motor isn't 9:1. With less timing down low, it'll take more boost and the rods bearings will be happier. Then with the small turbo, boost will likely naturally taper up top.
With less timing down low, it'll take more boost. On pump gas, going a bit richer than full boost target during spool up keeps them happy.
Also, need to see knock voltage on the logs.
Sweet! I'll go ahead and give this advice a try with the 91 timing map. I'll be switching back and forth fuel types between tanks until I have dialed my FreeFuel flexfuel rom. I just switched over to this lesser known rom and I am pretty happy with it as a replacement for the exclusive Fitronics flexfuel rom.
Today I was able to retune the E85 fuel map and turn up the boost. I would have liked to stay out on my tuning road longer tonight to free up more top end hp, but it started raining and it cut my time short . I still need to take fuel out of some areas and perhaps richen a few, but the VD numbers are close to what I got on the Dynapack hub dyno. The difference is now the car REALLY get's up and goes early. More torque and much earlier. In fact, i'm not even sure it's safe haha.
Results on E85:
My goal is to lower the boost spike of 33.8 psi at 4250 rpm to 31 and raise the boost between 5000 and 5500 to keep the boost taper nice and uniform. This factory turbo hits 20 psi by about 3300 rpm and keeps pulling hard up to 6500 rpm where it can be seen losing steam. Below is the current timing map. I smoothed it out a bit using the smoothing excel sheet. Please let me know if you think it's too conservative or too aggressive and i'll make some changes.
I wouldn't worry about lower boost. You have a built motor, let it eat. Our shop car with a 6870 makes 500wtq at 4700rpm. And my 2.2 makes 500wtq at 3700, and ~530wtq before 4000...lol. I think this was 36 or 37psi down low. It's all we could get out of it. More wgdc didn't make more boost, and 1* more timing was only about 7-10ftlbs, so we took that back out after trying it.
I wouldn't worry about lower boost. You have a built motor, let it eat. Our shop car with a 6870 makes 500wtq at 4700rpm. And my 2.2 makes 500wtq at 3700, and ~530wtq before 4000...lol. I think this was 36 or 37psi down low. It's all we could get out of it. More wgdc didn't make more boost, and 1* more timing was only about 7-10ftlbs, so we took that back out after trying it.
That must be such a blast to drive! That much torque that early is a rocketship and gives so much usable power around town. I'll let the high boost ride and fix the the fueling stuff to see what kind of numbers I can get out of it.
I also used the Merlin's Guide to adjusting the idle stepper lookup table like so. The revs drop immediately now and it's so much nicer to drive!
It's too bad something went wrong with my clutch today and will likely need to replace it. The pedal has pulsations up top and the behavior of the clutch is now < top of pedal.......release point........randomly grab point....bottom of pedal > instead of <top.......release point.......bottom>. It happened right after the first pull of the day so it was likely on the way out since last week
It feels like these past two weeks I have learned more about tuning than I have in the past 5 years. I'll get back to it as soon as I put a new clutch in.
Just looked at your ethanol datalog, you can prob run 1-2* more timing everywhere. 0* at 4000 (I'd venture that the knock here is false, hard to say without a real dyno though), 10* at 6000, 14* at 7000, 15* at 7500.
Just looked at your ethanol datalog, you can prob run 1-2* more timing everywhere. 0* at 4000 (I'd venture that the knock here is false, hard to say without a real dyno though), 10* at 6000, 14* at 7000, 15* at 7500.
Also, whats your E85 wgdc look like?
Glad to know there is potentially more power to be had! I'll increase timing a degree in the load cells hit and check for differences.
Here is what my WGDC table looks like atm prior to adjusting the boost by gear. The turbo is definitely maxed out up top, but I think I can make more boost before then.
For a new clutch kit, I am thinking about the Xclutch XKMI23522-2A or the ACT T2S-M01. They are both twin organic street disks that hold more than 700ft lbs of torque, but I like the design of the Xclutch a bit better because one of the clutch disks is actually connected to the sprung hub, leaving only one to float. It also does not have any small springs/tabs that could break off and prevent shifting. With the recent issues that folks on here have had with the ACT Mod twin disk, I think I might just roll the dice on the XClutch. Has anyone had any experience with it?
Just wanted to say thanks to @Pal215 and @LetsGetThisDone for sharing so much detailed tuning info. I haven't had a chance to work with E85 yet so it's helpful to see actual numbers and tuning progression.
Just wanted to say thanks to @Pal215 and @LetsGetThisDone for sharing so much detailed tuning info. I haven't had a chance to work with E85 yet so it's helpful to see actual numbers and tuning progression.
. The car idled at 14.7 stable with STFTs within 5%. After that, I went through the fuel map and tuned the car roughly for the appropriate AFR for each load column and rpm. So, this may have changed things now on the fuel tables I posted, but the timing tables are exactly the same from the initial tune. I think it's a far better place to be.
. I have my PSI adder value set to 22 psi to allow for higher input values in the E85 table later. Actual boost is 22.3 psi peak as seen by the datalog. (RazorLabs post: Boost Adder + Boost Desired Engine 'PSI' Table - Your atmospheric (baro) = your target boost.)
. I still need to take fuel out of some areas and perhaps richen a few, but the VD numbers are close to what I got on the Dynapack hub dyno. The difference is now the car REALLY get's up and goes early. More torque and much earlier. In fact, i'm not even sure it's safe haha.
factory turbo hits 20 psi by about 3300 rpm and keeps pulling hard up to 6500 rpm where it can be seen losing steam. Below is the current timing map. I smoothed it out a bit using the smoothing excel sheet. Please let me know if you think it's too conservative or too aggressive and i'll make some changes.
