You are right on the spot with differences between the LSD (with the viscous coupler in there) vs. Torsen type diffs and nobody can argue that!

The thing what you are missing here (and a lot of other people here), is that having the tighter (or faster locking) center diff makes an AWD car to push even more! This is the inherited problem for the mechanical type AWD cars and you or me or anyone else hardly can do much to fix it.

Of course, there are ways to make the car loose, but at the price of loosing the quick transition handling, or you can make it right for the regular speeds, but have it to push like a pig in the slow corner, and so on.... Basically, all of the things that I have tried so far would have some bad's in there, and so far I am not able to make it right. The thing is that, this is not a complain that the car is too bad or anything like that (result pages could easily confirm this ), but in order to move the car to the higher handling level, I believe that answer is in the active drivetrain. At least, all of the guys in the WRC agreeing with this statement so far!

Mr. AWD

 

So not true!! If you are driving a safe way somewhere around 7/10, than yes you are right. In the dry you can make that to happen with any kind of the diffs in there. You will also finish in the middle of the pack (or maybe even win, if all of the other people are driving the same way) and behind the people that are pushing their cars closer to the 10/10s.

The thing is that ones you are getting close to the 10/10s, car is getting to the limits of the adhesion and there is no difference whether you are on the gravel or dry asphalt. You go over that and you will loose your car one way or another. Same for all conditions!

So, if you are serious about the racing and having an FTDs most of the time, than you would appreciate all of the help that one can have from those electronic gizmos. If you are there just for fun of it (which is perfectly fine and there is nothing wrong with it), than you wouldn't care much between the active stuff and regular mechanical diffs in your car, since both would give you what you are there for!!

Mr. AWD

 

And your post is different from those that you are accusing how?? Better get some grip and cool off instead of crying over the people that cry over the ideas of the car looks and feels!

Mr. AWD

 

Damn straight, well said on all points MrAWD, especially that last one.

 

Does not having a 6-speed, ACD & AYC not make EVO an EVO?? NO...example EVO I thru III NO ACD NO AYC and NO 6-speed trans but these cars are still very well respected for their performance prowless. So it does not having these items will bring down performance..yes but mostly in the handling area. Does that mean you will not be able to hang with EVO that has these items...NO These items will not make or break the cars overall performance potential. Just on side note by EVOIV came with AYC....didn't like took it out! Fells better..and in my opinion, performs alot better in the corners...PEACE

 

You are wise beyond your year’s ishi.

There is no substitute for experience.

People! Don’t confuse the systems present in WRC cars with what we get in our Evos. Similar is not same. I can buy the same gearbox that was fitted in Tommi Makinen’s car. Price around 60,000£. I tremble just contemplating the cost of his active suspension and yaw control.

 

This is a debate that will go back and forth for ages, the reason being that there is no clear-cut answer. It's like asking a person the ideal suspension setup - ask 100 professionals, and you will get 100 different professional answers.

The AYC/ACD does a great job. It certainly does help all drivers - except professionals perhaps. When it gets down to the pro's, they can get non-ayc/acd cars, such as the way-out STi Type C RA, around a course with nearly equal (or even better) times than a similar-powered RS with the AYC/ACD systems.

However, that's because they know the track, they know how to left-foot brake, where to turn in early to compensate, how to get the tail to rotate even without the electronic aids.

And to be honest, I'm in the non-ayc/acd group. I'm used to the mechanical honesty of AWD systems without the electronics. Driving the Evo VII, the turn in was great, but it felt artificial. And for me, driving is all about the feel, not the track times - I'm as competitive a red-misting demon as anybody else, but I've raced against, and with professional drivers enough to know I'm not one, and that a car a second faster around a track won't do me any good, since my track times will vary by more than that anyways.

Mr.AWD, your comments have piqued my curiousity though. I'll try and find out what the autocross/gymkhana Evo owners are running. I do know that top times are regularly switched back and forth between STi's and Evo's here in Japan, so I can't really say that there is a clear-cut answer there, either.

Cheers,

Paul Hansen

 

Great post shirokuma,

However I disagree with you on the comparison between the STI not haveing the AYC and therefore it isn't needed on the Evo either. The reason the STi can get away with it perfectly fine and the evo really should have one is due to the cars design difference. The longer a cars wheel base the generaly harder the car can be to turn in. The STI has always had a shorter wheelbase and thus will never need an AYC. Same for cars like the WRC 206. The reason it was created has alot to do with reallizing that if they want to keep the wheelbase long for stability they needed to find a way to help it turn in better to make up for this disadvantage. I agree that when it comes down to it the driver will always be a way bigger influence on the cars handling. In your post you stated how much better it felt to not have one. More predictable handling and such. I hadn't really taken this into considerstion and seeing as how you've driven both with and without and I have never even seen one I will take your word for it and accept a mechanical diff if thats what it comes with. Besides, the fact that it will be lighter without it and less prone to breaking and expensive repair bills, I guess it is for the better.

If I was over 21 (or in TJ) I'd say cheers back

My 2 cents.

 

Just to play devil's advocate though - that's just how it felt for me, if you drove it, you may feel differently.

But - latest rumourmongering points towards a "base" Lancer Evo package for cheapish price, and dealer installed "packages" (for non-cheapish price) that will put you all the way up to JDM Evo spec - and beyond.

Cheers,

Paul Hansen

 

Ahh... that's what I like to hear! And that is also what I am expecting.

Can you confirm yet whether the US car will be a Ralliart developed vehicle or this MMC developed Cedia Evolution that you wrote about in one of your articles?

 

Nothing yet - if something comes my way I'll let you know.

Cheers,

Paul Hansen

 

That is NOT good for autox. If a "package" is dealer installed, it is no longer considered stock, and it puts the car out of the stock class. This is a problem that the WRX has run into. Everything needs to be Factory installed.

 

Or is it? I have found that dealer options, in general, remove many would be competitors from stock class. They buy the car and realize the can get a dealer installed CAI which oops, bounces the car right into SM. Oh well. However, it isn't really the first timers that I am initially worried about either. I for one am hopping the car will be very competive in its class.

"I'll try and find out what the autocross/gymkhana Evo owners are running."

Funnny, everytime I hear "gymkhana," I can't help but laugh. Anyone ever seen the movie "GymKata"?? Now thats some good stuff.

/<

 

well MR awd seems not to know how to differentiate crying from straightening people up. actually i would talk to that one person about something so minor that it would make no sense to bring up, but it seems that this ayc and 6spd thing is a big issue. you on the other hand felt the need to boost your confidence and come on the boards and critique a post that had nothing to do with you nor was it directed towards you. Indirectly you my friend are babbling and whining about me talking about the evo's missing tools and how it won't affect things too much. you might want to revise your own comments before you jump on others

 

oops, meant to say *if i was actually talking to that one person about something so minor that it would make no sense to bring up then it would be crying*