Im sure the biggest question is...... Does this or does this not replace the Xede? And will you be continuing your Xede research.

 

*ahem*

Not to be pushy, but we are still waiting for more news on the Xflash. So, what's the dealio? Just a little more info to whet our appetites for more power would be appreciated.

 

Hey Shiv,

How soon will we know prices for your stage 2?

Jeb

 

Your going to need to plan for ~ 8K and to plan for 5.25/gallon for race gas to get the full performance. I am trying to get his opinion on max safe HP levels on 93 octane this will vary slightly with set up but there is only so much power to be made off of pump gas- You need to ask yourself is you are going to pay 5.25 a gallon to enjoy the power on a daily basis or are you going to leave 100HP on the table taking the cheaper route?

 

Nothing much has changed since the last update. This week is still being spent on the dyno making baseline XFlash maps. Next week I'll be gone for SEMA. Custom dyno tuning will be available the following week by appointment. The basic XFlash remapped computer will cost $495. For the first month or so, custom dyno tuning will cost $100/hour and shouldn't take more than 1-1.5 hours. After that, we'll go back to our $200/hour tuning charge. This discounted charge rate only applies to XFlash services, btw.

Cheers,
shiv

 

Shiv, just please let me know what the main difference is between the xflash and the XEDE. I am waiting to order either way dependent upon your answer. You can PM me if you wish.

 

I have a few quick questions about this. If I go with the stage 1+ and then want to goto a stage 2 that is going to require a reflash, what will the cost be on that? Also If I have a stage 1+ with the xede and the flash will I have to still send in the ecu for a update?

Thanks again

 

About 10-15whp and user-tunability.

 

The policy we have in place for WRX reflashes is that re-reflashing with be free of charge if the additional parts were purchased from us. If you are following our stage path, then I suspect they will be. Otherwise, we're probably going to have to charge some sort of reasonable fee.

Shiv

 

Is this with both or with one or the other?

 

ah... i was saying that the XEDE will offer user-tunability and the potential for making more power than the (or any, IMHO) reflash. It adds additional knock control logic which is more appropriate for higher output applications. Applications where the factory knock control system is either too sensitive or not sensitive enough at different engine speed/load combinations. I suspect thisd is why it provided nearly twice the gains as the dozen or so custom tuned reflashes that were present at the St. Louis dyno day.

Shiv

 

Agreed that the Exede will have the potential to make more HP than any reflash for two reasons - ONE - you can turn up the boost on the exede - but you can only prevent taper on the reflash (thats why we recomend you get a EBC or MBC with the reflash to control the boost at a higher point - I love the hks evc v - Two - the knock sesnor adjustment feature on the Exede which helps you make a more agressive tune without haveing the factory ecu pull timing. We are limited with the reflash to the factory knock threshold. basically what I do is tune the car right below the knock threshold all the way up the power band and try to find ways to make the car quieter with the tune. 99.99% of the time we are able to avoid ANY knock activity and also get the 20 whp peak number we promise - (93 octane at least)

BTW - I made a dyno pass with JUST my reflash yesterday at 535 whp which from all the sources I have may just be a world's record on whp through a MAF sesnsor and stock ecu on a 2.0 l DSM - all with zero knock activity what so ever - could have made more power with some detonation - but WHY take the risk?

I have serious reservations about desensitizing the factory knock meter - its there to protect your engine and if you are going to detune its theshold its NOT something I would even think of for a second unless I was working on the car in person - any margin of error on that adjustment would leave you with no protection against knock that is sometimes very hard to hear without the right equipment

The best solution of course would be a reflash combined with teh exede - that would give you the benefits of both - BUT the cost of such a set up is satrting to approach the autronic PNP and aem boards

 

895 +100 for the flash - 1,000 AEM = 1500+ maybe 2/3s

 

Al, we don't simply "desensitize" the factory knock control. We remap it completely. At some engine speed/load combinations, it is less sensitive. At others it is more sensitive. This is one reason we purchased a load bearing dyno capable of holding engine speeds and loads constant during tuning. Something that you are not capable of with the AWD Dynojet. I spent 2 weeks remapping the knock control system with three different test cars and det cans to find the ideal knock adjust maps. So much time and effort was put into it that he maps are not user tunable or even user-viewable. They are integrated into the XEDE's code and can only be disabled (not modified). The results speak for themselves. Even running on our 91 octane.

That said, I can assure you that adding an XEDE on top of your reflash will be worth additional knock-free gains. Not to mention a smoother power curve without having to resort to high octane race gas. The FUD you are trying to spread with regards to our knock adjust feature is unwarranted and inappropriate given your lack of experience with the XEDEs. It's quite a step up from the Emanage that you use.

Shiv

 

I see your point on the knock attenuation or adjustment and obviously that approach would yield great results if the knock sesnor is uniformly reading engine background noise as detonation - (which we have seen). We also have seen actual detonation which did NOT result in action by the ecu - so I can see the point of going the other way. I question the uniformity of the errors at given rpm points across the board. However, as you have researched this obviously you are in a better position to know. Its just my own personal preference - no FUD intened - to stock with what the designers set for the knock tables. If I really wanted to I am sure I could find someone to give me the address for the factory settings and rewrite the knock correction right in the ecu. At some point - maybe for the 91 octane guys it may become an issue - however - at this point in time we are generally able to get the gains we want 99.999 % of the time. We do have to run a very rich a/f ratio to work around the knock activity - but we are very confortable with long term saftey with rich a/f's and the stock knock map.

The results I have obtained with my own personal car on the stock ecu with the knock correction in tact show me that it is very possible to tune around the knock thershold.

As you suggested elsewhere - I agree that 10 whp is a good estimate of the advantage of correcting the knock signal over a non corrected map as you can run a leaner a/f and possibly one degree more of timing if you could retard the signal slightly. In my way of thinking 10 whp is a small gain and almost insignificant, certainly not worth the risk of the serious damage that unchecked detonation can cause in a short order.

While no doubt respecting your experience and observations in this regard, for us a 3 car sample pool is not large enough to base such important decisions on. BTW - the dyno we use is not really a handicap at all as I do ALL of my basemap tuning and development on the road which is about as close to real life driving as I know. All we do on the dyno is fine tune the maps I already made to the individual car. We tried a few cars on the dyno pak dyno which has a similar ability to hold a certain load at a constant speed but I felt it was of limited value becuase most of the Evos are so powerful they never stay stuck at one speed - they are always accelerating. Sure the ramp time and pull length would be nice to adjust but thats why I tune on the road so its spot on.

Again - its just my own preference to maintain the factory threshold. Certainly nothing wrong with making small corrections one way or the other.

As for the emanage - it's most powerful feature for me is the ability to CLAMP the maf signal at a given load and then use the 3 bar map sensor as the load reference to add in additional injector on time. This feature comes in very handy in certain applications. I have no idea if your product also does this but I imagine it prob does.