No Al. The knock adjust map makes the car safer. It does so by not having to rely on high boost and lean fuel mapping to make maximum power. Allowing, at times, 1-2 degrees more knock-free timings allows the tuner to provide for more thermally efficient fuel mapping. Lower EGTs and more consistent power output. Something road racers will appreciate when hammering on their cars for 20 minutes at a time in racing conditions. Something often ignored by drag racers who live their life 1/4 mile at a time on c16 race fuel. It also enhances knock control sensitivity in those areas were the factory knock control system is lacking. Don't always confuse settling for less-than-optimal peformance the same as maximizing safety margin. Sometimes you can have your cake and eat it too.

And no, an EVO is not "always accelerating." Get the revs low enough and the road grade high enough and you can dwell the car at a constant RPM and constant load for a very long time. Just like on our dyno. I don't expect these conditions to be reproduced as you described on the road unless you drag the brakes with a very fine calibrated left foot, monitor manifold pressure and watch RPM, all at the same time, while still avoiding traffic.
The factory designed the knock control system to support 271 horsepower. And that is what it does very well. These settings become a handicap when the tuner wand is waved. This is why most of your pump gas dyno results look lumpy and noisey. Also, having access to all the knock control maps with XFlash, I can tell you that there is little in the code that would improve the knock control systems ability to distinguish against knock and noise. Knock events are binary and independant of rpm and load (with a certain window, of course). There is nothing in there that could come remotely close to accomplishing what the XEDE does. I have yet to find any engine control system, aftermarket or otherwise, that has proven to be as accurate as the combination of the XEDE and the factory knock control system. This is no accident considering how all our tuning is done on our miserable 91 octane California fuel. But the benefits apply to all fuel types.

Regards,
shiv

 

That is true shiv, If you look at Al's dyno's they are the way I like my mashed potatoes, Nice and lumpy :-)

 

 

Guys, we have a civilized exchange of opinions going on here. Why spoil it? If you have nothing intelligent to add, just sit back, read, and learn!

 

I kinda agree but that cop car rawks And Im hungry so lumpy taters sounds great , But above all I want shivs cake and to eat it too

 

But that cop car pic was pretty funny

 

How do you like this Big Al dyno sheet from today - its his new Stage Zero Plus - very lumpy and lean eh?

 

Looks great About 30HP low but like you said rich to slolom round the knock sensor

The marketing of richer than needed AFRs is rubbish its cause he has to toe the knock sensor but servs it up on a silver platter so as not to cause heartburn of the SAFE power left in the kitchen

 

MP5; that extra hp left in the kitchen is ONLY crumbs !!! Prob about 5 - 10 whp less than could be made at 12.0 / 1 a/f ratio. Do you think it is wise to send out a customer with no wideband 02; no knock meter and no egt with a tune close to the edge that may lead to detonation and or high egts in conditions of extreme temp changes or varying fuel? Its one thing when we are talking about people who mointor these things and adjust them on a daily basis. But, it seems the typical reflash client wants a buy it and forget it type solution. Mp5 what kind of a/f would you like to see run on a car like this on pump gas?? OH and do you really belive that this kit - a EBC, downpipe and 2.5 muffler can make 310 whp ? I belive if I am not mistaken that your champion Shiv made only like 293 whp on Eric's car with a FULL 3" turbo back ON THE SAME DYNO and at much leaner a/f's ? Where is the missing whp?

 

Not bad but I will let someone tune my car that has over 8 years not 3 months and has a business not works out of his car with a laptop. It's your money and your car not mine.

 

Actually, Eric's car only had a cat-back and an XEDE. Not even a straight thru one at that. I suspect a proper 3" straight-thru muffler would have been worth another 5-6hp. But who's counting. As for the running it lean, have you even seen the a/f ratio graph? It's not lean by any means.

Cheers,
Shiv

 

Would you mind posting the dyno sheet up so we can all see the a/f's ? Do you personally agree with MP5 that the a/f 's should be run much leaner than the 10/7 ratio in the above dyno sheet? Thanks

 

I found it from another thread:

Also note that starting the run late (that is, at a high rpm, as done in one your graph) will bump up hp further since you're putting less thermal stresses on the car. It's a subtle way of cheating

Cheers,
shiv

 

No Im not saying much leaner Im saying he must dance around knock sensor activity which BTW is different under different RPM range so like a butchur he slices the fat off the meat but he has to waste some meat instead of leaving the fat. I am sorry I knocked your setup I was thinking full 3" TB.https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...threadid=44124 there you go same model dyno Texas heat

 

Get us a chart with the stage 1+ on 93! lol