Nitromethane Q&A..
evoryder, i have heard that its bad for the pump then i heard your pump needs a little bit off oil to keep the seals intacked when running 100% meth. So to be honest with you I dont have a def answer but not sweating because I always have a spare pump, life is a learning lesson and I learned to buy an extra one LOL
just got the mixed done, the pump is primed with the new mix. just got off of work so will post results in a bit
just got the mixed done, the pump is primed with the new mix. just got off of work so will post results in a bit
evoryder, i have heard that its bad for the pump then i heard your pump needs a little bit off oil to keep the seals intacked when running 100% meth. So to be honest with you I dont have a def answer but not sweating because I always have a spare pump, life is a learning lesson and I learned to buy an extra one LOL
just got the mixed done, the pump is primed with the new mix. just got off of work so will post results in a bit
just got the mixed done, the pump is primed with the new mix. just got off of work so will post results in a bit
alright here are my results on the butt dyno can tell a big difference, even my wife said so. just want to thank her for loggin with me, designed some gauges for her to warn me when things get a little high for my taste off to the results. I really like to tune my car as well as other close to 0 as possible, dont like sneaking around with knock. I can tell you that nitro def does carry some more oxgyen to the mix even using that small of amount. A/F were 11.8-11.4 now there 12.0-11.7. Here is my timing table with a m15 nozzle 100% meth with MAYBE a frew single 1 counts (talking about 1-3 1 counts here and there) but mainly its 0, just depends on the weather/pull octane flag always 100:
3000 6
3500 6
4000 8
4500 8
5000 13
5500 16
6000 18
6500 21
7000 25
7500 25
Did about 5 pulls
1. First pull seen about 1-5 counts so i said maybe the engine is a bit cold, octange flag was @ 100
2. No changes to timing, knock was around 1-9 counts it was increasing the high timing area (you can tell that the nitro finally made its way in LOL)
3. Retard a few degrees here and there now I am back to 1-5 counts
4. Retard some more, knock is around 1-3 counts
5. (I have to get up early tomorrow so I made it count with the adjustments) knock is around 1-2 but its very very amounts but mainly in the start of the pull.
I am still running stock heat range NGK copper plugs going to advance tomorrow to pick up a step colder. During pulls 2-5 I can feel spark breaking up but I never gapped them lower than the stock .028 they came in. I will gap the new ones pretty close. Timing now:
3000 5
3500 5
4000 6
4500 6
5000 11
5500 13
6000 14
6500 15
7000 18
7500 18
Even though timing has retard a bit the car still feel ALOT faster, even the misses agree. I am very happy with the results, going to try the colder plugs in and play with timing some more. Intake temps were around 95-120, I live in the panhandle and humidity is crazy high in the summer. Like its 80 degrees out and I feel so sticky.
3000 6
3500 6
4000 8
4500 8
5000 13
5500 16
6000 18
6500 21
7000 25
7500 25
Did about 5 pulls
1. First pull seen about 1-5 counts so i said maybe the engine is a bit cold, octange flag was @ 100
2. No changes to timing, knock was around 1-9 counts it was increasing the high timing area (you can tell that the nitro finally made its way in LOL)
3. Retard a few degrees here and there now I am back to 1-5 counts
4. Retard some more, knock is around 1-3 counts
5. (I have to get up early tomorrow so I made it count with the adjustments) knock is around 1-2 but its very very amounts but mainly in the start of the pull.
I am still running stock heat range NGK copper plugs going to advance tomorrow to pick up a step colder. During pulls 2-5 I can feel spark breaking up but I never gapped them lower than the stock .028 they came in. I will gap the new ones pretty close. Timing now:
3000 5
3500 5
4000 6
4500 6
5000 11
5500 13
6000 14
6500 15
7000 18
7500 18
Even though timing has retard a bit the car still feel ALOT faster, even the misses agree. I am very happy with the results, going to try the colder plugs in and play with timing some more. Intake temps were around 95-120, I live in the panhandle and humidity is crazy high in the summer. Like its 80 degrees out and I feel so sticky.
Last edited by bnice01; Aug 14, 2007 at 07:42 PM.
alright here are my results on the butt dyno can tell a big difference, even my wife said so. just want to thank her for loggin with me, designed some gauges for her to warn me when things get a little high for my taste off to the results. I really like to tune my car as well as other close to 0 as possible, dont like sneaking around with knock. I can tell you that nitro def does carry some more oxgyen to the mix even using that small of amount. A/F were 11.8-11.4 now there 12.0-11.7. Here is my timing table with a m15 nozzle 100% meth with MAYBE a frew single 1 counts (talking about 1-3 1 counts here and there) but mainly its 0, just depends on the weather/pull octane flag always 100:
3000 6
3500 6
4000 8
4500 8
5000 13
5500 16
6000 18
6500 21
7000 25
7500 25
Did about 5 pulls
1. First pull seen about 1-5 counts so i said maybe the engine is a bit cold, octange flag was @ 100
2. No changes to timing, knock was around 1-9 counts it was increasing the high timing area (you can tell that the nitro finally made its way in LOL)
3. Retard a few degrees here and there now I am back to 1-5 counts
4. Retard some more, knock is around 1-3 counts
5. (I have to get up early tomorrow so I made it count with the adjustments) knock is around 1-2 but its very very amounts but mainly in the start of the pull.
I am still running stock heat range NGK copper plugs going to advance tomorrow to pick up a step colder. During pulls 2-5 I can feel spark breaking up but I never gapped them lower than the stock .028 they came in. I will gap the new ones pretty close. Timing now:
3000 5
3500 5
4000 6
4500 6
5000 11
5500 13
6000 14
6500 15
7000 18
7500 18
Even though timing has retard a bit the car still feel ALOT faster, even the misses agree. I am very happy with the results, going to try the colder plugs in and play with timing some more. Intake temps were around 95-120, I live in the panhandle and humidity is crazy high in the summer. Like its 80 degrees out and I feel so sticky.
3000 6
3500 6
4000 8
4500 8
5000 13
5500 16
6000 18
6500 21
7000 25
7500 25
Did about 5 pulls
1. First pull seen about 1-5 counts so i said maybe the engine is a bit cold, octange flag was @ 100
2. No changes to timing, knock was around 1-9 counts it was increasing the high timing area (you can tell that the nitro finally made its way in LOL)
3. Retard a few degrees here and there now I am back to 1-5 counts
4. Retard some more, knock is around 1-3 counts
5. (I have to get up early tomorrow so I made it count with the adjustments) knock is around 1-2 but its very very amounts but mainly in the start of the pull.
I am still running stock heat range NGK copper plugs going to advance tomorrow to pick up a step colder. During pulls 2-5 I can feel spark breaking up but I never gapped them lower than the stock .028 they came in. I will gap the new ones pretty close. Timing now:
3000 5
3500 5
4000 6
4500 6
5000 11
5500 13
6000 14
6500 15
7000 18
7500 18
Even though timing has retard a bit the car still feel ALOT faster, even the misses agree. I am very happy with the results, going to try the colder plugs in and play with timing some more. Intake temps were around 95-120, I live in the panhandle and humidity is crazy high in the summer. Like its 80 degrees out and I feel so sticky.
Where are you sourcing your nitromethane from?
Do you have logs from the pulls?
If you are able to do the pulls on the same stretch of road, or at least a level road, I can run the logs through Data Log Lab for you to try and calculate the HP gained from Nitro.
Also, what mix ratio are you running?
If you are able to do the pulls on the same stretch of road, or at least a level road, I can run the logs through Data Log Lab for you to try and calculate the HP gained from Nitro.
Also, what mix ratio are you running?
Last edited by dudical26; Aug 15, 2007 at 05:31 AM.
Evoryder thanks brotha but The nitro/meth/oil did completely mix (no separation) since the RC fuel comes mixed with meth/oil/nitro. When you start adding water to the mix did you have to worry about it not seperation. With water you dont want to mix more than 40% of it, or it will seperate. There was probably a 100% still in my lines since my tank is mounted in the trunk. I thought I got it all out but i guess not. I figure I had to let the new mix sifer threw. I am using 30% RC Fuel its (10%oil 30%nitro rest is meth) its 20 bucks a gallon. My mix is the same as in post 40.
dudical26 I did do logs thats how I knew how much knock I was getting. check post 40 about mixing ratio works like a champ. My DLL is acting weird I will post up my log in a bit, thanks man.
dudical26 I did do logs thats how I knew how much knock I was getting. check post 40 about mixing ratio works like a champ. My DLL is acting weird I will post up my log in a bit, thanks man.
Last edited by bnice01; Aug 15, 2007 at 05:43 AM.
Extracted from the waterinjection.info forum, done some years ago.
Originally Posted by hotrod
Okay --- numbers check
10 Kg/min of air --- air contains 23.16% oxygen by mass.
That is a mass oxygen flow rate from the air of 2,316 gm/min
------------------------------
Nitromethane CH3NO2 sp gr = 1.139 (20 deg C)
Carbon 12.0111 x1 = 12.0111
Hydrogen 1.008 x 3 = 3.024
Nitrogen 14.0067 x 1 = 14.0067
nonoxygen mass fraction (29.0418)
Oxygen 15.9994 x 2 = 31.9988
Nitromethane Gram molar weight = 61.0406
Oxygen content by mass = 52.4221584%
At 300 ml / min of mixture and a mass fraction due to nitro of 17.92% that would yield 53.76 gm of nitromethane, containing 28.18 gm oxygen.
air flow supplies 2316 gm/min O2 + 28.18 gm/min of O2 from the nitromethane = 2344.2 gm/min.
I figure that out to be an additional 1.2022236 % oxygen.
You might be off by one decimal place Richard.
It looks to me that by mass, that injection rate of nitromethane would add about 1.2% oxygen by mass. That would be the equivalent to increasing air flow by 121.6 gm/min or enough oxygen for 2-3 hp.
Obviously at lower airflow rates, like mid range rpm the proportion of extra oxygen contributed by the water/methanol/nitro mix would go up proportionately. At a 5 kg/min air flow you would be adding 2.4% oxygen with your 300 ml/min injection. That would likely be a noticable increase in initial throttle response and low midrange torque. Also by effectively automatically leaning the mixture when the WI comes on it might be tailored to give a fail safe setup that would be lean when the water was working but a safe tune if the water spray was off.
As far as your mixes go. You might try adding a small portion of acetone to your mix. In gasoline alcohol mixes the addition of a higher alcohol like acetone helps any water stay in suspension. The same effect may help with your nitromethane. A mixed alcohol like 75% methanol + 25% ethanol may have some possibilities as well.
Larry
10 Kg/min of air --- air contains 23.16% oxygen by mass.
That is a mass oxygen flow rate from the air of 2,316 gm/min
------------------------------
Nitromethane CH3NO2 sp gr = 1.139 (20 deg C)
Carbon 12.0111 x1 = 12.0111
Hydrogen 1.008 x 3 = 3.024
Nitrogen 14.0067 x 1 = 14.0067
nonoxygen mass fraction (29.0418)
Oxygen 15.9994 x 2 = 31.9988
Nitromethane Gram molar weight = 61.0406
Oxygen content by mass = 52.4221584%
At 300 ml / min of mixture and a mass fraction due to nitro of 17.92% that would yield 53.76 gm of nitromethane, containing 28.18 gm oxygen.
air flow supplies 2316 gm/min O2 + 28.18 gm/min of O2 from the nitromethane = 2344.2 gm/min.
I figure that out to be an additional 1.2022236 % oxygen.
You might be off by one decimal place Richard.
It looks to me that by mass, that injection rate of nitromethane would add about 1.2% oxygen by mass. That would be the equivalent to increasing air flow by 121.6 gm/min or enough oxygen for 2-3 hp.
Obviously at lower airflow rates, like mid range rpm the proportion of extra oxygen contributed by the water/methanol/nitro mix would go up proportionately. At a 5 kg/min air flow you would be adding 2.4% oxygen with your 300 ml/min injection. That would likely be a noticable increase in initial throttle response and low midrange torque. Also by effectively automatically leaning the mixture when the WI comes on it might be tailored to give a fail safe setup that would be lean when the water was working but a safe tune if the water spray was off.
As far as your mixes go. You might try adding a small portion of acetone to your mix. In gasoline alcohol mixes the addition of a higher alcohol like acetone helps any water stay in suspension. The same effect may help with your nitromethane. A mixed alcohol like 75% methanol + 25% ethanol may have some possibilities as well.
Larry
Yes sir Richard I seen that forum for quite some time it has taught me alot esp the rc nitro thread ( I take it thats were that post is from) 
Last edited by bnice01; Aug 15, 2007 at 06:07 AM.
Thread Starter
Account Disabled
iTrader: (122)
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 6,876
Likes: 0
From: Peekskill NY
on by the way dudical, i am running 255/40/17 tires. i havent really check in dll too much if you can change tires size because i installed new o2, added more timing and the tires went to check a previous log lost 15hp. gain more acceralation but lost topend just like when you use a wider tire.
Just to get all the info striaght for the DLL definition.
You have an Evo 8 with the 5 speed trans
255/40/17 tires
Have you done any weight reduction?
What is the combined weigh of you and your wife?
This info wont really matter as long as I keep it all the same from run to run, it will still show the gain, but no reason not to be accurate.
You have an Evo 8 with the 5 speed trans
255/40/17 tires
Have you done any weight reduction?
What is the combined weigh of you and your wife?
This info wont really matter as long as I keep it all the same from run to run, it will still show the gain, but no reason not to be accurate.