Sorry i have to post a reply to some of your commments..


Reprogramming a ECU through an ODB2 connector isn't exactly new.. DSMers have had DSMLink for quite a while.. And are modifying it for the evo as we speek.

There are also other companies selling reprogramed stock ECUs already too, so i doubt you are the only ones. Or maybe they are just selling yours.. i dont know.


And yes standalones do cost more, but they are worth more.. Piggybacks are cheaper and also do more, and come with base maps. And are already on the market too.


Now, that is not knocking your way of doing this.. It would be very nice to modify the stock ECU maps via ODB2 interface. But i am not going to buy staged upgrades..


So if you want customers like me find a way to sell me the software or lease it or something.



-Zach

 

David,

The problem you face is an impatient crowd, who feel cheated by Mitsubishi's horrible "US tune". They see simple fuel controllers (black-box-band aid-witchery as you made it sound) gaining 30+whp. One of your competitors is already claiming a 90whp increase from intake and exhaust plumbing tuned by one of these boxes . I, myself, will probably give in to an AFC in the next week or two. $325 for getting 30-40whp back seems quite the bargain. Especially since a trip to the dyno with a wideband O2 set-up is all that is required to get a decent (didn't say good) tune with whoever’s product you want to bolt on ! Now if you are not going to offer ECU reflashing for other manufacturer's products, such as intake systems and exhaust systems, your ECU better put out at least 50+whp alone to draw an interest. Now at the 50+whp range for the price, your product is starting to sound good. What about controlling the OE boost solenoid? One of the first upgrades the average EVO owner gets is a boost controller. The ability to hold just the stock 19psi all the way to redline instead of tapering off to 16ish should bring even more power to the table. That would be one less expense if one were to go your route, and one more reason for the mild modder to buy your product vs. one they can retune themselves.

So when are you going to release some numbers? By not giving a conservative "at least this much" quote, you may be losing customers as you read this. I for one would be willing to wait a couple more weeks for a plug in 50+whp. Hell, for not much more, I might bare knuckle my way to the front of the line!

 

Thank you for the thoughtful feedback, Zeus. We have considered this issue, and can't say that it changes the way we do business, even if it means losing some potential customers.

Q: How long did we wait for U.S. EVO to arrive? A:10 years since it was introduced to the world.

How long are people willing to sit tight for OEM caliber re-tuning of their new $30k+ cars? Some need a quick fix now. Some are willing to wait a bit longer.

It stands to reason that it is easier to rush to market with a piggyback system and cash in on an impatient audience who want their cars making extra power right now than it is to take the time and fully develop OEM quality mapping of the factory ECU. However, we at WORKS would rather take the extra time to fully develop -- and this means extensive R&D -- an ECU upgrade that goes inside the car's brain and addresses everything from ignition mapping, to air/fuel ratios, and factory boost mapping, along with removing speed governors, rev limiters, etc. These are all operating parameters inside your car’s brain that no piggyback could ever hope to address and you are of course correct, makes it unnecessary to purchase a separate boost controller or other hardware.

I am confident that thoughtful and technical-minded enthusiasts like yourself will come to the solution that is right for them. I have no qualms about our competitors claiming big power gains out of piggybacks. They have their approach, and we have ours.

But before you plunk down $325 to get back "30-40 hp" out of an air/fuel controller, think it through (and it sounds to me like you already have).

What does an Apexi S-AFC do? It is a simple interceptor box that allows the end-user to adjust the factory air/fuel ratio -- nothing more, nothing less. If that sounds like the optimal way to tune your EVO's ECU, then by all means, buy it.

If you are looking for a more comprehensive tune, and one that doesn't "chase" the mapping on the ECU but goes straight to the source, then there is the WORKS approach for $449 -- with a limited time 10% discount and free shipping on pre-orders. But to clarify, our ECU reflash entitles you to an additional one free reflash for your next purchase of WORKS products.

Some people will go one way, some will go the other.

Let’s look more closely at what WORKS is offering from a “bang for the buck” perspective: Say for example, you were to buy our Brain reflash along with our Exhale Exhaust and Aperture Throttle Body now, we would optimize the flash for the products you have ordered and give you a $200 credit ($100 each) for the Exhaust and Throttle Body upgrades.

Let's say down the line, you decide you want even more power and decide to order our WORKS intercooler piping upgrade kit and water injection. Having already bought the ECU reflash, you are entitled to one free reflash for your next order with us. So, you would again be saving $100 for each item that you ordered (in this case, another $200 credit) and your ECU would be reflashed to optimize the full line of WORKS products that are on your EVO.

What we are not offering is the kind of deal where we send you a pre-mapped piggyback that we have sitting on the shelf, and when you need a re-tune, you are left on your own.

You see, WORKS is interested in building relationships with our customer base. We record your VIN number and log the mods on your car when you send your ECU in for a reflash. We are interested in taking a long-term approach to your project, to ensure that we are here to meet your needs every step of the way. While we would love to offer re-flashing for our competitors products (and in fact, some of our ECU tuning may work perfectly well with our competitors hardware), it is simply not logistically possible for us to carefully study every exhaust, intake and other bolt-on modification on the market by every manufacturer out there and offer a reflash optimized for it. The best we can do is thoroughly test our own line of products, and ensure that the reflash you get from us is 100% dead on for the hardware that we offer.

If at the end of the day, your concern is how much additional power does “X” approach net me compared to “Y”, I would urge you to look carefully at what you are buying. What do you think will make more power? An air/fuel controller or a comprehensive re-tune of your air/fuel mapping along with ignition mapping, boost mapping, rev limit removal, speed governor removal etc.? The answer should be clear, even without WORKS putting official dyno numbers out just yet. Rest assured, the numbers we present will bear out the results that you as an EVO enthusiast are expecting. If they didn’t, we wouldn’t be putting our products on the market.

Over the coming weeks and months, you will see WORKS taking our products to the track and participating in various EVO tuner shootouts in the media. Obviously, we believe in our approach enough to stake our reputation on it -- even if it means losing some sales to the impatient crowd.

-- DavidV

 

Good answer... even though it's ripe with "political correctness". Glad you could read though my last night, as my post was a little vague and choppy. Right now, I'm walking the line between waiting and going for the quick fix. I know what the correct answer is. It's just a matter of how long I'm willing to wait. As you pointed out, we've waited 10 years already, only to receive a super rich ECU with loads of timing taken out! I used your site to place my interest in your "pre-order". I'll await a response...

 

Will the reflash contain the same info as the factory mapping for when knock is detected and timing retard is needed? In other words is the fail safe map still intact? (if there is such a thing)

 

Very interesting. I would like to know more about the fail-safes over this ecu. Keep up the work, umm. works.. .. I am trying my best not to hop onto any bandwagon yet and start modding like hell, even though i yearn for more power. But when you guys have offical results, i would love to see comparisons of your parts from stock vs your parts. stock vs your parts + remapped ecu. Your parts vs your parts + remapped ecu. I am wondering how this reflash will act with the car. Such as its power to keep itself from causing damage to the car (retarding itiself). and other benefits.

 

Without going into all the proprietary know-how, the short answer is "yes" the factory safe mode is maintained. Not only that, all of the original factory diagnostic codes are maintained as well.

This is important because most, if not all, of these cars are still under factory warranty and these codes are the ones the dealer service technicians rely on to diagnose and service the car.

Although I love the adjustability offered by a full standalone, this is another big shortcoming of going with a standalone as opposed to a reflash -- losing the ability to access factory diagnostic codes.

With the Brain reflash, a dealership service technician can tap into the factory diagnostic port and see whether the car is experiencing a mechanical issue (like a vacuum leak or faulty O2 sensor). With the standalone, you lose this ability entirely, and with a piggyback, since all of the signals are tweaked before they go to the ECU, the likelihood of erroneous codes goes way up. Further, since the ECU stores codes, even disconnecting a piggyback or disconnecting power from the battery before going into the dealership won’t eliminate a code once it has been captured by the ECU.

-- DavidV

 

So your saying that a tech could access the ECU to check codes and not know that the ECU had been flashed?

 

If this is above is true, will the ecu void warranty, or do you know. I'm new to all this and want to mod my car, but would like to keep the warranty.

 

While it is highly unlikely that the tech could tell from a diagnostic port scan that the ECU has been reflashed, I am not in a position to give a conclusive answer at this time. Please feel free to email or call once we have the ECUs out in circulation and I will be able to confirm with more certainty.

-- DavidV

 

i'm willing to bet that unless the dealer tech is looking at the timing and fuel maps and happens to have the factory specs memorized then No they'll never know. the reflash is sounding like the way i want to go. i don't like messing with the AFC's and risking doing something stupid (which i have a tendency of doing)

maybe i read right over it and it's already been discussed, but what about boost levels. it's my understanding that the ECU has a boost controller built in it already. will the tapered boost levels to redline be addressed?

edit: oops, nevermind. i see where boost mapping is addressed. You guys keep working hard and get this product out to us!

 

I subscribed to your pre order a few days back but have not received anything back... I'm I to assume that I'm in on the first order?

 

Here's a new question. Can the reflash compensate for a BOV?

 

David,

Is it safe to say that your re-flash can only change numeric parameters (maps) in the ECU, and not actual logic?

 

I'm not sure what you mean by numeric values and not actual logic. Could you please clarify?

-- DavidV