robertrinaustin

iTrader: (5)

You're reading comprehension is the problem. Hello McFly, the short section of mine you copied said nothing about IC pipes and focused on back pressure. You keep trying to focus on IC pipes and the only thing I said about pipes is shorter pipes, which some of the aftermarket pipes are measurably shorter, spool better and you agreed. So I'm not sure why you're confused or keep going back to this.

Each of my subsequent post have specifically referenced back pressure. What about your point about back pressure? Remember? I posted it below to remind you. In the section I cut a pasted, I bolded where the actual turbo engineer stated "you want the least back pressure possible, no ifs ands or buts".

So, use your brain and come up with something logically that will explain why all the posters in this thread and every turbo systems engineer has it wrong about back pressure. You are after all, the only one holding the opposing theory.

Once again, you can argue the Earth is flat all you want, but you'll need some very compelling evidence to be pursuasive because after all, we all know the Earth is round.

Sorry to everyone for taking this so OT, but people post crap lick this and someone may actually believe it. Could you imagine "upgrading" your aftermarket free flowing exhaust for something more restrictive.

Obviously, it is futile to argue with Az3ar as he will never admit he's wrong even though everyone else can seem to figure it out, but I wanted to make a point.

x838nwy

Az3ar,

so, let me get this straight:

1.) We posted explanations. You didn't read it.
2.) We posted more explanations, you read it but didn't believe it because we lack credibility (asking about age and credentials).
3.) We quoted form people with proper credentials, very relevant to the topic and you're saying it's just links and cut and paste.

I'm too tired to argue with mindless stupidity. I would bet that if someone shows you a dyno plot, that would be cut and paste again? I have looked around and there isn't any plot that I can find. Having said that, it by no means indicate that it does not provide any gain. I mean, if no one can find a dyno plot of a Cosworth shortblock or a Ralliart Japan built engine, does that mean there's no gain over stock?

I've been avoiding this for too long now so I'm just going to say it. You're dead wrong. Your grasp of the basic concepts involved is alarmingly poor. Since your first post you're trying to troll people who says the pipes give some gain, just waiting to post your retarded and false understanding of the concept which tragically you think is so very clever. No, you're very very wrong. Had you the brain you claim you think with then you'd read these posts, even books, and admit that your understanding of the concept is incorrect and let it go.

As far as cerdility goes, I have a BA, MEng and MA from one of the top five universtites on this planet and all those degrees are in Mechanical Engineering. Yet I have been rightly modest and willing to learn - similar to most on this forum. In contrast, you have been vomitting out crap all this time and refusing point blank to absorb any concept that didn't emerge from your own ar$e.

I doubt you'd ever change your mind so yes, go ahead. The stock pipes cannot be improved upon whatsoever. All those calculations thousands of people around the world do about pipe pressure drop is all wrong. The smaller the pipe, the better the flow. You win, in your own little world where physics apply only as you imagine it.

Az3ar

iTrader: (18)

It's funny how some people choose to use insulting words when they cant prove their point. Anyways, that shows what kind of level of education you have achieved


Furthermore, if there is any "ANY" real gain from after market pipes you would have seen every EVO owner and his mother swearing by them and comparing Dyno charts. Everyone for sure agrees on Tune, Exhaust and cams as the best power gainers but you rarely see someone saying oh I gained 10WHP over pipes, do you know why? Because no one did no one will.

Also, you keep saying throttle response and I can almost bet that you have never taken your EVO to the circuit track. Do you know how I know? Because a real track guy will not think about these small parts in fact he or she will spend most of their time on seat time and suspension mods. So in a nut shell you have no clue what throttle response is and how it can be improved.

For example if a tuner works on your car and tells you hey you have 10 extra WHP " and he did not do anything" you will believe him and your mind will make you believe while driving that your car has better response and power.

No matter what I say or do "which I simply don’t care" you will always believe that pipes make power and I don’t.

Even works guys said it will not make any noticeable power for the amount of money spent.

Good luck

MitsuJoe

iTrader: (133)

How does track time directly correlate to throttle response? Am I missing something here?

Maybe after having the stock pipe blow off 10 times you get sick of it and upgrade to a better design that:

1. Has less bends
2. Has more flow
3. Is better designed
4. Does not flex as the stock rubber hoses do
5. Looks better

The list could go on, although for most it is not a performance upgrade. That is why they justify it. If you like the stock pipes so much leave it to yourself. Wasting your time to convince the world is only going to waste your own time.

Az3ar

iTrader: (18)

I am not trying to convince anyone. I could care less if you go any buy 20" pipes its your choice and your money.

Also, I had 2 EVOS and none had blown IC hoses and just for the record I was boosting 30 psi on my 8 “ just make sure they are tight”

It’s not worth it for me to keep presenting facts here. Do whatever you like; get the 50" hose which will give your car extra 200WHP and inline 6 throttle response

x838nwy

I CAN prove my point. I HAVE proven my point. Several times, if you cared to read.

What I have failed to do is prove my point to you. This has nothing to do with the point or the way through which I am trying to convey them.

The problem, which is yet another thing you have failed to grasp, is that YOU have refused to read anything, or accept any new concept.

I have never taken my evo to the track. However, I raced actively for about 6 years of my life, in EG9's, DC2's, and a Mirage. That's circuit racing, rallying and rally crosses with race cars (as opposed to cars that you can drive to the event in). So, yes, I think I know something about throttle response. In fact, anybody who has put a foot on a throttle knows about throttle response. How it can be improved is quite simple. Make the system transient response quicker. In terms of induction, reduce the inertia of the items involved. What's the big secret here, may I ask? At the track, as well as anywhere else, power is power and it has its values. Once you have the suspension setup you like, then there's no real reason to spend 'most' of your time on it. In fact, if I were to race my evo, I'd install this pipe in a heartbeat. It's cheap, has zero possibility of breaking the car, maintenance free and it can only make it better.

No, I don't belive in empty claims of performance gains. But when there are good solid reasons for why the pipe should be an improvement for the stock, I'd say there's more than just a sales pitch there. For example, look at the vortex generator. I read the blurb on it, read about the theory, aske several experts about it and then I bought it. Have we seen wind tunnel tests? Not to my knowledge, but form my research I'd say that it works. And yes, the car does feel less flighty at high speeds.

As for ANY (and every) performance gain being posted on this forum, there's a lot of people reporting things, but not everything. There are exhausts (one of the most talked about item) that aren't dynoed. Also, plots do not tend to carry much meaning as they are never really compared to complete bone stock cars or the car in quesiton is carrying a whole host of other mods/tunes that may skew resutls. Additionally, as I have been saying, small gains are very questionable on plots. A 3whp gain (roughly 1%) is debatably an error on the dyno, for example. So, I'd be wary of any claim of gains around 1-2% of things that do not have any plausible reason for the gained performance. In this case, there are good reasons for it and a guess would indicate the gain is small. If anyone tells me there's 40whp to be had I would question that, but a 5whp gain would seem to me perfectly reasonable. But that only works with me because I am willing to look at reasons and what physics and engineering predicts. Where as you're not, so it won't work with you.

x838nwy

Isn't it a little funny that Buschur racing, AMS, HKS, HorsePowerFreaks, Perrin, Injen and RMR (and probably more) make ic pipes. Now that Works doesn't make them, that makes ic pipes instantly useless, no matter what anyone says....

evoone

iTrader: (8)

did someone mention that the nisei intercooler tips the scales at 30lbs. the evo is front heavy as it is. why put more weight up front?

my set up:

stock intercooler
aquamist
steel uicp and licp in case i choose to run 100% meth

massive intercoolers( boat anchors) are good for big turbos and drag cars

TogueMonster

iTrader: (14)

Here's something that says a lower intercooler pipe alone will make HP. If you guys are into that kind of thing.

AMS EVO Lower IC pipe $225.00


Click to enlarge
This 100% aluminum lower intercooler pipe is a replacement for the restrictive lower pipe that comes stock on your evo. The stock pipe makes extra bends and necks down to less than 1.5" at one point. Our pipe flows smoothly and without restriction from the turbo outlet to the intercooler. Installation is easy and can be installed at home in less than 2 hours. Through our extensive parts prototyping and dyno testing programs we have found that replacing the lower pipe alone is worth 7-10 HP.

robertrinaustin

iTrader: (5)

At the time all the IC pipe kits were coming out, I believe Vishnu found gains from replacing the pipes as well and the had none to sell.

Here is a quote from Buschur's site
We were able to save 20" of intercooler plumbing length and 5 bends from the lower intercooler plumbing alone. This in conjunction with our upper intercooler pipe kit saves 11 bends and a total of 36".

It's hard to imagine that removing over 3 feet of pipe and so many bends could not impact throttle response at least and also whp. Of course, I am sure Az3ar will claim Buschur is a scammer for claiming any improvement.

x838nwy

With the Intercooler, I totally agree. From my understanding, you need to balance cooling effect, pressure drop, and volume and its difficult to achieve an improvement in all three. The compromise of the three factors must suit your turbo and your application.

However, what we're talking about here really is the piping. The pipes do nothing more than route air from one place to another and the best way to have the pipes is to have it as efficient as possible - or as little loss as possible - which means fewer bends and bigger diameter. Second order effects such as response limits crazy-sized diameters however.

wingless

iTrader: (15)

Don't waste your time guys... Az3ar has been here for years preforming his service on Evom...

He's the whiny little .... that in 03', bolted a ATP 3071 on a bone stock Evo and proclaimed it the fastest ever.

A year or two later he's teh road course master and a wanna be M3 e30 is FTW