I don't think a MAP for 93 octane is even a question. The timing is adjusted by knock. No knock equals advancing. Some people (not boeturbolancer in particular) think there's an octane sensor in the fuel tank the way the talk sometimes. But the question is a valid concern.
That exhaust upgrade you asked about, they do flash for exhaust upgrades. And they flash for their products. I don't recall seeing a boost or CAI upgrade, but there is an exhaust/throttle body upgrades.
and you right, the Evo guys are loving this...

 

Sure. Dyno results will vary from dyno to dyno and from day to day. I would not encourage putting much emphasis on doing dyno to dyno comparisons unless it was the same dyno on the same day. As an example, one of the board member's (BADWRX) was on the dyno following one of our tuning sessions (not the one we posted the results from) and had this comment to make in another thread on this board:

We happened to post graphs from the hottest day in the middle of summer, after the car had already been in the dyno for several hours, rather than doing the “official” pulls on a nice cool day and posting the very first pull of the day. We feel this provides consumers a more representative depiction of how the car actually performs, as increased under hood temperatures will bring out the worst in any tuner's product and we wanted there to be no question that the WORKS tune is 100% safe -- even with the car seeing sustained abuse for hours on end in extreme heat.

As far as the look of the graph, that's just how a real dyno chart looks. You can smooth them until the cows come home, but we wanted people to see what was actually going on so that they could get a real sense of the substantial improvements WORKS has made in our extensive development of the Brain flash. We have not only dyno'd our own car, but other cars as well, and the peak power and look of the graphs -- under similar conditions on the same dyno -- were nearly identical.

-- DavidV

 

I know that you guys are busy, but whenever you get the chance I would love to see a pull with 93 octane, an intake and an exhaust. Reason for this combo would be that it is something that we could do while still keeping our factory warranty, as it seems that this is the most that Mitsu will let us get away with. I for one am not willing to give up a warranty on a brand new car but I would still like to see what kind of power I could get out of it.

 

What I meant was, maybe from all the WRC and EU spec cars, we can actually maximize the power output of our EVOs safely. Yeah, 8500 rpm is high, but how about 8000? I threw away 8500 because I saw an EVO reflashed ECU with a "claimed" 8500 redline on EBay (who knows how true it is). Also, I personally think that 19 psi max is VERY low. At least 20 psi tapering to 18-19 psi should be safe and efficient. I also have reservations on the 8.8:1 AF ratio.

I thank WORKS for spending the time and effort in improving the EVOs performance, but I really do think it is a bit thin and needs a little more work. I AM impressed by the HP gains like I said, but like you've confirmed, the TQ is a bit thin.

That's $0.04.

STI

 

I think that there "is" somewhat of a question regarding the availability of the 93 octane map. All of the West Coast tuners have opted to tune to the safe side of things, and have all primarily been pushing their 91 octane maps.

When I originally spoke with David about this issue, he mentioned they were still undecided on how to approach the 93 octane re-flash, if at all.
I understand that access to 93-94 octane pump fuel is an issue out West, and that mixing race fuel to come up with a 93-94 octane mix may not result in precise results.

Altitude and weather conditions in comparison to other parts of the country are also going to make creating a generic 93 octane re-flash for the entire US more challenging. Concerns about people taking there EVOs on a trip from an area that has 93-94 octane into an area that doesn't is also a concern for tuners like Works.

At the end of the day a 93 octane map may only result in an additional 5-10 whp, but personally though I will take that measily 5-10 whp if the choice is presented any day of the week!

On the flip side of that I don't want an unusable map that causes pinging and constant timing retardation in the midwest heat and humidity!

As far as the comments regarding timing and the affects of knock.......sure when you run more agressive timing on crappy 91 octane fuel you are going to see knock, and the ECU will retard timing resulting in poor performance.

At the same time if the timing maps are built around the knock threshold of 91 octane fuel, simply running 93 octane is not going to miraculously recalibrate the timing maps.

BTW Mayhem ..An octane sensor in the gas tank eh?
There are a few folks out there who are new to car tuning on this board, but I hope most people are smart enough to understand the reason for wanting the 93 octane re-flash.....maybe not though? ;-)

I do agree with Boeturbolancer, and am betting that the addition of a few select bolt-ons will push the whp up substantially(40-60whp) as we have seen with RMR's results. It will really be up to the tuners to decide how far they are willing to go with various tuning maps for different mod combos.

In the end all of this is good news and we are fortunate to have as many options as we do! :-)

 

So 30 hp at the wheels would mean what??? 40 hp at the crank. So the evo being rated at 271+40=311 hp?! That sounds good to me. David at works is sitting on a gold mine right now, if this is a safe way to get more performance out of your evo while having your warrenty in tact. He has always said better drivability and safe performance. He is being kind of tight lipped about numbers, and I dont blame him, he is sitting on a gold mine and dosnt want to give imfo away.
Forget ultra low times at the track, if this ecu flash can provide alround better street performance, and it looks like it does. While having NO PROBLEMS, then he has hit a home run. I just put a ralli art drop in filter in my car the other day and I can sure tell a difference, it pulls freer and the boost comes on faster. Looks like this ecu flash has about 5-6 times better performance than my drop in, just a guess. I think it will get really interesting after a few people put a few miles on thier reflashed ecu's and then we will see thier reviews/problems/issues. Its going to get very interesting very quickly.
I personally think WORKS has a winner here. If its everything he says it is.

 

They did hit a goldmine, but I think he could also find diamonds in it.

STI

 

Hi Dave,

BADWRX is wrong. There is a substantial differerence between the two dynos. There are a few issues with the sample car he sited that I won't go into. Let's just say that all things equal (testing proceedure, conditions, etc.,), expect 16-18% difference between Dynojets and our Dyno Dynamics dyno. It's been proven time and time again.

Here's a link to a well-controlled dyno test done a few months ago by a mutual customer both of ours and ATPs:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...vishnu+and+ATP

Cheers,
shiv

 

I do not understand when peoplle say that the torque is a bit thin. Yes there is only a max increase of 15.8 ft/lbs (if you can call that only), but at a certain point in the map it is a 25 ft/lbs increase and it come on faster, stays solidly up, and continues much further. I know it may not look like much, but this improved TQ curve will net a good "seat of the pants" difference in feel. I can't wait to see what it does when combined with a few other modifications.

 

Exactly! Dyno graphs are helpful indicators, but driving the car tells the whole story.

-- DavidV

 

So david, why dont you tell us how it drives compared to a stock Evo8, that might help some.

Also Shiv, nice write up in this months sport car compact, Your stage 2 wrx kicked major *** all for $33,000 including the cost of the wrx, it stomped the stock sti. I also like the wingless look of your car. good job!

 

Thanks, it was a fun but long 2 day event. We had no idea what to expect entering that test as it was the first time the STi was ever driven. The STI was the first car tested at Fontana and, obviously, the early favorite by all. We were just aiming to do well on the road course as that's what the car is set up to do. The other stuff was just bonus.

Back to topic: The Stage 2 car in the magazine dyno'd at 255 wheel hp on our Dyno Dynamics dyno and 296 on the AWD Dynojet at HKS the following day. The STi, likewise, dyno'd at 220 wheel hp on our dyno at at ~260 at HKS. So, yes, there is a substantial difference between the two dynos. Anyone who suggests otherwise needs to be more controlled with the testing methods. We go so far as to even log the raw fuel/timing/boost values to ensure that there are no hidden differences between the two tests.

Finally, please forgive my participation in this forum as I know I don't belong here. I just wanted to clear up some confusion that was brought to my attention regarding our dyno calibrations.

Cheers,
Shiv
... exit stage left

 

Now ,,,,, Back To David!!!!!!!!

 

Night and day difference -- really. I just love the higher rev limit and the way the power just keeps building instead of falling off at the end. The car is as balanced and tractable as stock, but pulls much harder throughout. I could go on and on... but I'd rather have the people getting there WORKS flashed ECUs over the next few days comment on their impressions.

-- DavidV

 

So how many people from evolutionm.net have purchased this re-flashed ecu your sending out next week? I cant wait to hear what they think of it. Reliablity is about one notch above performance gains in my book. Hope everything is as you say. And your time was well spent in developing this ecu flash. Also what tool does the Mitsubishi service people use to check codes in the ecu? You have said all codes are there and you cant tell the difference between this reflashed ecu and a stock one. Can you tell us in more detail about these two issuses? I think it will put many, many people at ease if this is truely the case.
Thanks.