really considering a 2016 STI
Sep 2, 2015, 12:45 PM
#61
EvoM Guru
iTrader: (1)
1. The community is ****. No really, I mean the people are idiots, don't really have much knowledge of what they have, and are cheaper than the worst of the Honda communities from the 00's
2. EJ's are garbage. No really, they're garbage. They don't breathe well, even with full head work and 1mm over valves, they are extremely hard on headstuds and rod bearings due to their design and ignition pattern, and they are not a reliable engine. Even if you throw everything at it, it will still blow up and cost you an extreme quantity of money. The difference between a "fully built ej" and a "mildly built ej" is what turbo is on the damn thing. There is no "Oh just rods and pistons". You need sleeves. You need headwork because it can't breathe. Boom $10000 dollars later and you have a half decent block that will still blow up because of the poor design.
- look at the lengths that shops will go to keep the heads on, 1/2 inch headstuds with orings from Outfront Motorsports
- The rod ratio is extremely hard on bearings. If you stroke the engine, you're asking for a spun bearing
- Want to go over 25 psi? You are going to sleeve or close deck your block.
- AVCS doesn't help much, with most aftermarket cams you're limited to under 15 degrees of total control. Meaning 7 degrees advance or retard
- They're always on the cusp of knocking. Go look at the timing map of one and compare to a normal engine. Because of the design, they have to run extreme advance to make any power, which is another reason why the head studs are such an issue
3. The exhaust manifolds are garbage. An 8473 spools at 4k on an Evo. Where do you think it spools on a STI? Try 5k. Why? Because the exhaust manifold is 4' of piping. Unless you do a lowmount, which requires an oil scavenge pump, you're wasting your time. This combined with how badly they breath means that they don't ever make power.
4. The community is garbage. I have to bring this up again, because I still can't get over how uneducated and boy ricer it is. Its primarily a lack of education, where as people here might understand what the pros and cons of a 4032 and 2618 piston might be, there is no concept that there is different alloys there. Its just dawg is that an i beam or h beam?
Source: I have a built Subaru. I regret it every day. My friends have built Subarus, they regret it every day. Acquaintances who have built Subarus are selling them, because its not feasible to maintain them at the tune to $10k a built block for the rate that they eat them when you beat on them. Nobody I know other than shops that can bankroll races Subarus vs all the privateers that race Evos.
2. EJ's are garbage. No really, they're garbage. They don't breathe well, even with full head work and 1mm over valves, they are extremely hard on headstuds and rod bearings due to their design and ignition pattern, and they are not a reliable engine. Even if you throw everything at it, it will still blow up and cost you an extreme quantity of money. The difference between a "fully built ej" and a "mildly built ej" is what turbo is on the damn thing. There is no "Oh just rods and pistons". You need sleeves. You need headwork because it can't breathe. Boom $10000 dollars later and you have a half decent block that will still blow up because of the poor design.
- look at the lengths that shops will go to keep the heads on, 1/2 inch headstuds with orings from Outfront Motorsports
- The rod ratio is extremely hard on bearings. If you stroke the engine, you're asking for a spun bearing
- Want to go over 25 psi? You are going to sleeve or close deck your block.
- AVCS doesn't help much, with most aftermarket cams you're limited to under 15 degrees of total control. Meaning 7 degrees advance or retard
- They're always on the cusp of knocking. Go look at the timing map of one and compare to a normal engine. Because of the design, they have to run extreme advance to make any power, which is another reason why the head studs are such an issue
3. The exhaust manifolds are garbage. An 8473 spools at 4k on an Evo. Where do you think it spools on a STI? Try 5k. Why? Because the exhaust manifold is 4' of piping. Unless you do a lowmount, which requires an oil scavenge pump, you're wasting your time. This combined with how badly they breath means that they don't ever make power.
4. The community is garbage. I have to bring this up again, because I still can't get over how uneducated and boy ricer it is. Its primarily a lack of education, where as people here might understand what the pros and cons of a 4032 and 2618 piston might be, there is no concept that there is different alloys there. Its just dawg is that an i beam or h beam?
Source: I have a built Subaru. I regret it every day. My friends have built Subarus, they regret it every day. Acquaintances who have built Subarus are selling them, because its not feasible to maintain them at the tune to $10k a built block for the rate that they eat them when you beat on them. Nobody I know other than shops that can bankroll races Subarus vs all the privateers that race Evos.
Sep 2, 2015, 06:28 PM
#63
from what i can tell from a few years of being on here and NASIOC:
if you are from here: Subarus are the biggest piece of junk ever and we don't know why anyone would want to spend hard-earned money on something so inferior. look at the race results. Evos always win. it takes $10,000 to make as much power in a Subaru as the Evo with $1,500 into it.
if you are from NASIOC: Subarus last 300k miles. they make tons of torque, have the best interior, and millions of rally wins under their belts. they are for grown-ups, where the Evo is for punk kids. when my Subaru is done, it will be faster than any Evo. just you wait.
so really, it's all perspective and opinion. for every vote for an Evo being better, someone has reasoning why the Subaru is and vise versa. even within each community, nobody can agree on any particular idea LOL
just pick what you like, i suppose.
if you are from here: Subarus are the biggest piece of junk ever and we don't know why anyone would want to spend hard-earned money on something so inferior. look at the race results. Evos always win. it takes $10,000 to make as much power in a Subaru as the Evo with $1,500 into it.
if you are from NASIOC: Subarus last 300k miles. they make tons of torque, have the best interior, and millions of rally wins under their belts. they are for grown-ups, where the Evo is for punk kids. when my Subaru is done, it will be faster than any Evo. just you wait.
so really, it's all perspective and opinion. for every vote for an Evo being better, someone has reasoning why the Subaru is and vise versa. even within each community, nobody can agree on any particular idea LOL
just pick what you like, i suppose.
Sep 2, 2015, 06:39 PM
#64
from what i can tell from a few years of being on here and NASIOC:
if you are from here: Subarus are the biggest piece of junk ever and we don't know why anyone would want to spend hard-earned money on something so inferior. look at the race results. Evos always win. it takes $10,000 to make as much power in a Subaru as the Evo with $1,500 into it.
if you are from NASIOC: Subarus last 300k miles. they make tons of torque, have the best interior, and millions of rally wins under their belts. they are for grown-ups, where the Evo is for punk kids. when my Subaru is done, it will be faster than any Evo. just you wait.
so really, it's all perspective and opinion. for every vote for an Evo being better, someone has reasoning why the Subaru is and vise versa. even within each community, nobody can agree on any particular idea LOL
just pick what you like, i suppose.
if you are from here: Subarus are the biggest piece of junk ever and we don't know why anyone would want to spend hard-earned money on something so inferior. look at the race results. Evos always win. it takes $10,000 to make as much power in a Subaru as the Evo with $1,500 into it.
if you are from NASIOC: Subarus last 300k miles. they make tons of torque, have the best interior, and millions of rally wins under their belts. they are for grown-ups, where the Evo is for punk kids. when my Subaru is done, it will be faster than any Evo. just you wait.
so really, it's all perspective and opinion. for every vote for an Evo being better, someone has reasoning why the Subaru is and vise versa. even within each community, nobody can agree on any particular idea LOL
just pick what you like, i suppose.
Sep 3, 2015, 02:49 PM
#65
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1. I take it you don't spend much time in the Evo technical sections? both communities have their share of idiots, and experts.
2. I wouldn't call them garbage, they make good power at the stage 2, simple bolt-on stage, but past that, they're time bombs. You have to replace a significant amount of factory parts to make an EJ motor make lots of power reliably.
3. Agreed. Given the size of the engine and the turbo, spool is pretty bad.
4. Not really. There are good Subaru communities, and bad Subaru communities. There are good Evo communities, and bad Mitsubishi communities. Locally, the Subaru community is good. At the time I was a member of the local Mitsubishi community, it was ****. It was filled with the very people you complain of.
2. I wouldn't call them garbage, they make good power at the stage 2, simple bolt-on stage, but past that, they're time bombs. You have to replace a significant amount of factory parts to make an EJ motor make lots of power reliably.
3. Agreed. Given the size of the engine and the turbo, spool is pretty bad.
4. Not really. There are good Subaru communities, and bad Subaru communities. There are good Evo communities, and bad Mitsubishi communities. Locally, the Subaru community is good. At the time I was a member of the local Mitsubishi community, it was ****. It was filled with the very people you complain of.
They don't make "good power" they make mediocre power. This coupled with ringland issues, the huge power falloff at higher RPMs, and the heatsoak issues due to the idiotic placement of the intercooler make it a terrible platform.
As for the other guy saying subarus have a better interior, why do you buy a sedan like this for it's interior? Get a RS4 and mod that if you want interior.
Also lol subarus at 300k. I would love to see one with OEM headgaskets intact.
Sep 3, 2015, 02:54 PM
#66
"Reliably". Lol.
They don't make "good power" they make mediocre power. This coupled with ringland issues, the huge power falloff at higher RPMs, and the heatsoak issues due to the idiotic placement of the intercooler make it a terrible platform.
As for the other guy saying subarus have a better interior, why do you buy a sedan like this for it's interior? Get a RS4 and mod that if you want interior.
Also lol subarus at 300k. I would love to see one with OEM headgaskets intact.
They don't make "good power" they make mediocre power. This coupled with ringland issues, the huge power falloff at higher RPMs, and the heatsoak issues due to the idiotic placement of the intercooler make it a terrible platform.
As for the other guy saying subarus have a better interior, why do you buy a sedan like this for it's interior? Get a RS4 and mod that if you want interior.
Also lol subarus at 300k. I would love to see one with OEM headgaskets intact.
NA Subarus easily last to 300k. Turbos sure as **** don't. I sold my STI when it had about 111,000 miles on it. It was running strong then, but I knew perfectly well that it was only a matter of time.
What the STI needs is a new motor. I wouldn't consider one until the EJ series is replaced.
Sep 3, 2015, 04:06 PM
#68
They make good power. AMS, the renowned Evo tuner, showed as much. With basic bolt-ons, think turboback exhaust, tune, headers, the very minor stuff, an STI makes as much power as a 4G63 Evo. A 4B11 powered Evo makes more. Buschur appeared to form the same conclusion as well.
The VIII gets its face smashed in comparing torque, but high rpm power is where these cars all land on upshift.
Sep 3, 2015, 04:27 PM
#69
Today, Buschur would laugh at that statement, and so would AMS. A turbo-back + tune 4G63 IX makes a solid 50whp more than a turbo back + tune EJ257 STI. Even an VIII (sans Mivec) has a 20-25whp advantage on an EJ257.
The VIII gets its face smashed in comparing torque, but high rpm power is where these cars all land on upshift.
The VIII gets its face smashed in comparing torque, but high rpm power is where these cars all land on upshift.
Sep 3, 2015, 05:37 PM
#71
sti is a good car but it lost against the EVo mainly because the engine they have. There is no news here.
Evo is more reliable - cheaper and faster for a same money. Period. This is been like that a last 2 decades. LOL None who actually do and work around these cars denies that.
Only thing is North Amercia got and gets a LOTS of support and so from Subaru , so the negative media etc, helped to Subaru hide the weakness for a long time, but racing results and growing Evo community - tuner platforms ( there was a learning curve also for them too) slowly but surely became clear which was not a secret every where else in the world. Not much really but slightly the Evo was always a better car vs the STI .
Thing is, i would agree all the way up the Evo X the STI was a better daily, if you didn't touched it. The X changed that one too, and i think mainly because the STI didn't stepped up in the engine department. They still using the old and not so good engine for some reason.
But now this is a past, so poor STI had a new headache the Ford RS. lol
Seems like those guys never get any breake. LOL
Evo is more reliable - cheaper and faster for a same money. Period. This is been like that a last 2 decades. LOL None who actually do and work around these cars denies that.
Only thing is North Amercia got and gets a LOTS of support and so from Subaru , so the negative media etc, helped to Subaru hide the weakness for a long time, but racing results and growing Evo community - tuner platforms ( there was a learning curve also for them too) slowly but surely became clear which was not a secret every where else in the world. Not much really but slightly the Evo was always a better car vs the STI .
Thing is, i would agree all the way up the Evo X the STI was a better daily, if you didn't touched it. The X changed that one too, and i think mainly because the STI didn't stepped up in the engine department. They still using the old and not so good engine for some reason.
But now this is a past, so poor STI had a new headache the Ford RS. lol
Seems like those guys never get any breake. LOL
Last edited by Robevo RS; Sep 3, 2015 at 05:40 PM.
Sep 3, 2015, 06:07 PM
#73
My turbo back IX with tune, MBC, and stock paper filter made 344/335 dynojet 93 octane. My buddy's STI made 296/340 same day. There were several STIs that day and the highest was 300 on the dot. Most of the fault isn't that engine, but the baby stock snail that won't hold boost up top.
Sep 3, 2015, 06:18 PM
#74
My turbo back IX with tune, MBC, and stock paper filter made 344/335 dynojet 93 octane. My buddy's STI made 296/340 same day. There were several STIs that day and the highest was 300 on the dot. Most of the fault isn't that engine, but the baby stock snail that won't hold boost up top.
Sep 3, 2015, 06:23 PM
#75
My turbo back IX with tune, MBC, and stock paper filter made 344/335 dynojet 93 octane. My buddy's STI made 296/340 same day. There were several STIs that day and the highest was 300 on the dot. Most of the fault isn't that engine, but the baby stock snail that won't hold boost up top.