It's all about keeping an open mind... after all many said that a 02 non-turbo 2.0L lancer could never be as fast as the evo... proved all those people wrong many times over. Then i've heard people say a honda NA could never be as fast as the Viper... seen that proven wrong many times over...

People just need to have a little faith and understanding when it comes to things. We aren't saying that it will be possible for NA 12's... we're saying 13's. A 13.99 is still in the 13's and isn't far from a 14.9 that some are pulling with just a CAI.

Stock lancer owners started out running high/low 17's and some got themselves into the high 16's. Now with a little work and tuning they are clipping at the 15 sec door. That is a little over a second and in some cases a 2 second improvement. It can be done NA... asking for 12's is stretching but i won't rule it out.

Have a little faith brothers and sisters as the tale of time will show us all the path of glory or the path of defeat, based on our perceptions of what we accomplished in that time. A keen perspective is the key to all that is good and prosperious! Now that i sound like a sunday preacher i'm outa here

 

OK, I'll bite... You have proven many times that a non-turbo 2.0L lancer is faster than the evo? Please direct me to the appropriate posts, this I got to find out more about..... I knew that the stock EVO was a bit of a turd in the 1/4 mile, but I did not know that a NA Lancer was faster..... I assume this Lancer has more than just a CAI and exhaust?
Anyway, as far as I'm concerned if you can get a 2.0L Lancer to beat an EVO in the 1/4 mile, you've already proven the RA can easily get in the 13's

 

i think boe was refering to that fact that beofre the lancer was tc'd everyone doubted that even with turbo it would keep up with a lancer...after turbo ....it will keep up with it...i think that was his point

 

Oh, I guess it was not clear in the post..... It's a turbo charged lancer that can be faster than the EVO..... I'll buy that, what I read was:

" many said that a 02 non-turbo 2.0L lancer could never be as fast as the evo... proved all those people wrong many times over"

I hope you could see where I could misinterpret those words......

 

I'm saying there is an established food chain going NA. They are the previous gen SI, 'tegra GSR, and finally ITR. They are the measure stick for everyone. They have set the standard for good reason. IMO, it might take a RA about 300 fly HP to crank around the 13's, basically fighting toe to toe w/ a 1g DSM GST w/ few mods or a C4 vette. That's a tall order via NA.

 

Well, I don't know how well the NA Hondas can do in a general basis. I have noticed that it generally takes an early model Civic Hatchback, gutted with a modified Vtec GSR or ITR engine and LSD plus slicks to get anywhere in the 13's.... That's a hugely fast car and probably has a weight to HP ratio of around 11lbs per hp...... The RA with a curb weight of 2843lbs would need at least 258 hp to match the ratio. I don't know how well it would compare traction wise, etc.
I guess from 162 hp stock, you'd have to gain around 96hp to get there..... Possible? yes, easy?..... Well, you tell me

 

i saw where the misinterpretation happened thats why i posted of what i thought he meant but only boe knows what he really meant

 

That's the thing of a gutted Civic HB's . . . they probably float under 2200 lbs to undercut the lack of TQ from the motor. The RA lancer doesn't have the luxury of dropping 500 lbs w/o gutting it up and making it a safety hazard like SCC did it to one car (sentra??).

I'm using the C4 vette as a basis, because it has 240-250 HP (depending on the year) w/ TQ at 350. They hit around the mid 14's w/ weight around 3300 lbs w/o driver.

Then, I'm using my 1g Talon Tsi at 2715 lbs w/ manual (DOT spec off my title) and plug whatever driver weight. HP is around 195 or so. It can run around 14.9 to 15.2 stock. W/ 2.4x sec on the 60', expect uglier times.

A 13 sec RA will have to compared closely to these cars.

 

bahamut... check out the torque curve on the RRM dyno for the RA.
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...+dyno+Ralliart

Notice how the hp starts nice and low and slowly increases... this is what most are used to seeing.

The torque however is a different story... instead of starting low and rising it is high and stay's high... it is really one impressive torque band for a SOHC. The MIVEC is new to many around here, especially me. I for one see a huge advantage on this motor.

Using that and knowing how to addapt, modify, improve, and tune on the motor and can say that the 13's won't be out of this car's reach. If the torque can stay the same steady pace and get to about 210wtq i think on slicks you'll see it edge into the 13's. Of course this is with dumping seats, spare tire, impact rollers, front bumper support, etc. Just the minor weight reduction maybe 150lbs. Nothing permanent at all. That and slicks and the RA is in there.

 

On the quarter having good hp is great on your last gear crossing the line... but having the torque to get that metal pile moving is where the real time is made up. Once you get the car launched and up to speeds the hp factors in by keeping things going while torque falls.

The launch is key, the torque is key, then the hp... that's my way of ordering things when it comes to the 1/4. That's why the hp kills diesels... they can launch and go off the line and usually leap ahead of most others but they get caught half way down the track due to their mass and lack of hp. The RA has great torque thruout the band and comes right on target with the hp. I think we'll see great things with it.

 

Is that what those two things on the bottom front of the car are in this pic? I didn't see any wires coming from them, so I didn't think they had anything to do with the airbags, but I tried not to disturb them too much, just in case.

Pic is clickable for a larger version.

 

The reason why I vented earlier about comparing the RA to the Honda lineup, Vette, or any other car is because you simply cant compare. Its not like comparing a Celica to a Integra which both have VERY similar power and torque curves and numbers. Also the american V8 is also different in comparison to the import 4 cyl. Remember guys, these car have VERY different gear ratios, mix that with curb weight you have a little equlaizer. That is why a lower HP 4 banger goes and picks out Mustang's to race. We may not hit 180 MPH, but we can get to 100 quicker. So just try and not argue the Vette as a basis for the RA hitting 13's. Boe's number od $5k is also a number that I would say is safe...that means no help from anybody and paying for labor on stuff. I will also say again that 12's on the motor isnt TOTALLY impossible either. If a RSX is running 11.3 in the 1/4...you never know. Start with 11.5 compression pistons and a good head port and polish and you are well on your way to REALLY low times with some weight reduction, traction, race gas and an aggressive fuel curve. But as said before...time will tell all and all you guys who say otherwise will eat their words.

 

Yes they are the impact rollers... they serve to carry you over an object rather than letting the object hit head on with the frame and bend it. I don't know if they work or not, i'm no driver safety/collision expert. I do know that they are heavy and i take them off. They are about 8-10lbs each i'd say.

 

What's wrong with using the C4 vette from 1986 to 1995? Its massive TQ is offset by its weight, and it still has to launch well w/o burning a bunch of smoke. It doesn't even have all those traction control goodies like the C5 modern vette. Heck, I'm not even pointing towards the C4 ZR1, unless someone wanting to pick on a C3 Stingrays of the classic gas-crunch, carby years.

Which 'stang? The classic foxbody GT? Those can be beatin' badly from SI's to GSX's. A Pre-99 'stang can be had too. The post-99 is starting to get real hard. They bite back!


Boe,
It's impressive, but I think the powerband will change as it reaches toward 250 fly HP and beyond. I'm meaning the curvature of the graph. It won't be linear. I'm expecting it to be slighly peaky, not extremely peaky like the ITR or anything.




BTW: Not construing that "it can't be done", I'm saying "it's going to be very tough." I'm estimating fly HP to be 280-300 to get the high 13's.

I know 220 fly HP won't do it while I'm looking at my impending setup.

 

The reason I'm using H&A products, because they have set the benchmark for a lot of years. They are there for a reason and can't be dismissed like some sort of red headed stepchild. If they weren't for so formidable, I don't see too many Neon R/T's & ACR's or Cavy's w/o NOS gunning after the ITR.

The only thing I can compare the RA is the true euro spec Accord Type R w/ the H22 motor. How many of those Accords are here stateside. They are probably as common as finding the combimed total of true Evo 4-6 in the US that isn't participating in racing circuits. Well, maybe a little more than that grim #.