Considering a 2010 Ralliart or 2010 WRX
the engine get tuned up to 265 hp that makes the engine completely different doesn't it?...
then i guess i have a different engine now in my X, since i bought it. I have my upgrades too...
hopeless...
but entertaining .
press on.
Saying the block is essentially the engine is like saying the motherboard is essentially the computer. A good block can be helped or hindered by everything that's attached to it. Hell, look at the NA 4G63 motors. The block is the same but the engine is very different.
The first batch of 265s were problematic because of engine failures, you are correct. All were covered by Subaru. This was a case of Subaru firmly putting their heads up their asses and changing something that worked. That isn't an issue anymore and given that the WRX uses an "old" motor, most of the kinks have been worked out already. The same cannot be said of the 4B11T and the Ralliart.
Here are some of the issues I've found
AWC reflash https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/09...c-reflash.html
Airbag sensor https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/09...or-recall.html
Fuel pipe (also affects Evo X) https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/09...ipe-crack.html
Brake booster https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/09...ll-merged.html
Hood latch https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/09...95-recall.html
I'm ignoring any issues with the TC-SST as there hasn't been an official recall yet but I've noticed a few threads discussing issues with the car going WOT for no reason, shifting issues, etc. The MAF appears to be the problem in most cases although I believe there has been at least one TC-SST failure that couldn't be explained by modding.
We've all heard of the notorious gas pedal snapping and anyone who watches the Evo forums has surely seen other issues pop up. As with any new car, there are growing pains. It's impossible for a manufacturer to fully test a car in all conditions and ensure a 100% problem-free car.
The first batch of 265s were problematic because of engine failures, you are correct. All were covered by Subaru. This was a case of Subaru firmly putting their heads up their asses and changing something that worked. That isn't an issue anymore and given that the WRX uses an "old" motor, most of the kinks have been worked out already. The same cannot be said of the 4B11T and the Ralliart.
Here are some of the issues I've found
AWC reflash https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/09...c-reflash.html
Airbag sensor https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/09...or-recall.html
Fuel pipe (also affects Evo X) https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/09...ipe-crack.html
Brake booster https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/09...ll-merged.html
Hood latch https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/09...95-recall.html
I'm ignoring any issues with the TC-SST as there hasn't been an official recall yet but I've noticed a few threads discussing issues with the car going WOT for no reason, shifting issues, etc. The MAF appears to be the problem in most cases although I believe there has been at least one TC-SST failure that couldn't be explained by modding.
We've all heard of the notorious gas pedal snapping and anyone who watches the Evo forums has surely seen other issues pop up. As with any new car, there are growing pains. It's impossible for a manufacturer to fully test a car in all conditions and ensure a 100% problem-free car.
Look, the recalls are no deal breakers in the first place anyway... even I knew about them prior to buying my 2008 X, I see them as a good sign that Mitsu actually has the initiative to get them fixed before it becomes a real problem. I never had any problems with the X, and no issue with Mitsu's warranty (I used to own an Endeavor too).
Now if you talk about blownup motors on new cars, that I will be very scared about.
Now if you talk about blownup motors on new cars, that I will be very scared about.
For someone who claims to not care about multiple recalls, I find it hilarious that you'd suddenly be concerned about the motor issues Subaru had. Every motor affected was covered fully by Subaru. Moreover, the number of cars affected was low. To argue that since Mitsubishi released recalls, they're awesome is ridiculous. Mitsubishi is like any other car company, they only release recalls if it's in their best interest. If they figure that the cost of repairing the issues on a case by case basis is less than the cost of a full recall, they won't issue a recall. In the recalls listed above, it's pretty easy to see why they did them. Airbags are a safety item, if someone died because of a faulty sensor, Mitsubishi would be ****ed. Same applies to the brake booster and hood latch. In the case of the AWC reflash, that could prolong the life of the transmission, saving them money. For the fuel line, imagine the PR nightmare if some cars lit on fire.
Last edited by ambystom01; Dec 17, 2009 at 11:44 AM.
Saying the block is essentially the engine is like saying the motherboard is essentially the computer. A good block can be helped or hindered by everything that's attached to it. Hell, look at the NA 4G63 motors. The block is the same but the engine is very different.
The first batch of 265s were problematic because of engine failures, you are correct. All were covered by Subaru. This was a case of Subaru firmly putting their heads up their asses and changing something that worked. That isn't an issue anymore and given that the WRX uses an "old" motor, most of the kinks have been worked out already. The same cannot be said of the 4B11T and the Ralliart.
Here are some of the issues I've found
AWC reflash https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/09...c-reflash.html
Airbag sensor https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/09...or-recall.html
Fuel pipe (also affects Evo X) https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/09...ipe-crack.html
Brake booster https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/09...ll-merged.html
Hood latch https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/09...95-recall.html
I'm ignoring any issues with the TC-SST as there hasn't been an official recall yet but I've noticed a few threads discussing issues with the car going WOT for no reason, shifting issues, etc. The MAF appears to be the problem in most cases although I believe there has been at least one TC-SST failure that couldn't be explained by modding.
We've all heard of the notorious gas pedal snapping and anyone who watches the Evo forums has surely seen other issues pop up. As with any new car, there are growing pains. It's impossible for a manufacturer to fully test a car in all conditions and ensure a 100% problem-free car.
The first batch of 265s were problematic because of engine failures, you are correct. All were covered by Subaru. This was a case of Subaru firmly putting their heads up their asses and changing something that worked. That isn't an issue anymore and given that the WRX uses an "old" motor, most of the kinks have been worked out already. The same cannot be said of the 4B11T and the Ralliart.
Here are some of the issues I've found
AWC reflash https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/09...c-reflash.html
Airbag sensor https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/09...or-recall.html
Fuel pipe (also affects Evo X) https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/09...ipe-crack.html
Brake booster https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/09...ll-merged.html
Hood latch https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/09...95-recall.html
I'm ignoring any issues with the TC-SST as there hasn't been an official recall yet but I've noticed a few threads discussing issues with the car going WOT for no reason, shifting issues, etc. The MAF appears to be the problem in most cases although I believe there has been at least one TC-SST failure that couldn't be explained by modding.
We've all heard of the notorious gas pedal snapping and anyone who watches the Evo forums has surely seen other issues pop up. As with any new car, there are growing pains. It's impossible for a manufacturer to fully test a car in all conditions and ensure a 100% problem-free car.
for the new vs old argument in this case:
amby the WRX 2006 engine is reworked for better performance and so on for 2008. But the problem is they just blow them up left and right when they came out...., that is an old story... Mean while the brand new 4B11T doesnt seems to be blown nearly that much, specially in stock stage ... /fact i know maybe 2 or 3 cases/ all of them is after some modification.
SO the the "old" engine and desing doesn t shine as much as it should against the new desing... When they came out.
Since then Both get fixed and upgraded here and there . But a point is the WRX engine shouldn't have to have a problem at all since it was based on at least a 3 years old set up, vs the completely new design...
The 4B11T is a better engine vs the WRX turbo engine.
Even the subi forums are agree with that.
tranny you can argue. Im not going there. Because i think that is mostly personal preference.
Last edited by Robevo RS; Dec 17, 2009 at 11:41 AM.
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Saying the block is essentially the engine is like saying the motherboard is essentially the computer. A good block can be helped or hindered by everything that's attached to it. Hell, look at the NA 4G63 motors. The block is the same but the engine is very different.
The NA 4G63 motors are very DIFFERENT from Turbo 4G63s, same as 4B11Ts are so different from NA 4B11s running on regular lancers.
FACT: The RA's 4B11T motor is exactly the same as the X's 4B11T
Source: http://www.insideline.com/mitsubishi...-ralliart.html
"The engine itself is identical to the one in the Evo, right down to the 86mm-by-86mm bore and stroke, semi-closed-deck block and forged crankshaft and pistons. A Mitsubishi product planner tells us that the engineers considered using less aggressive camshaft profiles for the Ralliart, but decided to keep them unchanged. Even the compression ratio is identical at 9.0:1"
Com'n Amby, we've been down this road before...
Last edited by tipoytm; Dec 17, 2009 at 11:49 AM.
for the new vs old argument in this case:
amby the WRX 2006 engine is reworked for better performance and so on for 2008. But the problem is they just blow them up left and right when they came out...., that is an old story... Mean while the brand new 4B11T doesnt seems to be blown nearly that much, specially in stock stage ... /fact i know maybe 2 or 3 cases/ all of them is after some modification.
SO the the "old" engine and desing doesn t shine as much as it should against the new desing... When they came out.
Since then Both get fixed and upgraded here and there . But a point is the WRX engine shouldn't have to have a problem at all since it was based on at least a 3 years old set up, vs the completely new design...
The 4B11T is a better engine vs the WRX turbo engine.
Even the subi forums are agree with that.
tranny you can argue. Im not going there. Because i think that is mostly personal preference.
amby the WRX 2006 engine is reworked for better performance and so on for 2008. But the problem is they just blow them up left and right when they came out...., that is an old story... Mean while the brand new 4B11T doesnt seems to be blown nearly that much, specially in stock stage ... /fact i know maybe 2 or 3 cases/ all of them is after some modification.
SO the the "old" engine and desing doesn t shine as much as it should against the new desing... When they came out.
Since then Both get fixed and upgraded here and there . But a point is the WRX engine shouldn't have to have a problem at all since it was based on at least a 3 years old set up, vs the completely new design...
The 4B11T is a better engine vs the WRX turbo engine.
Even the subi forums are agree with that.
tranny you can argue. Im not going there. Because i think that is mostly personal preference.
The 4B11T is a great engine, but I wouldn't go so far as to say it is better. How are you measuring that? Power capacity? Noise? Fuel efficiency? What? The two engines have their advantages and their disadvantages, it depends on what you're using it for. If I was racing, I'd want the 4B11T, hands down, for daily driving, the extra torque due to the larger displacement makes the EJ255/7 a good option.
Are you serious? LOL the Motherboard RUNS the whole computer, it can make or break a computer (Im an IT support professional for over 12 years and I've been custom building PCs since college). Same goes for the engine block, it is the heard of a car. If you have a faulty heart, do you think you live for long?
The NA 4G63 motors are very DIFFERENT from Turbo 4G63s, same as 4B11Ts are so different from NA 4B11s running on regular lancers.
FACT: The RA's 4B11T motor is exactly the same as the X's 4B11T
Source: http://www.insideline.com/mitsubishi...-ralliart.html
"The engine itself is identical to the one in the Evo, right down to the 86mm-by-86mm bore and stroke, semi-closed-deck block and forged crankshaft and pistons. A Mitsubishi product planner tells us that the engineers considered using less aggressive camshaft profiles for the Ralliart, but decided to keep them unchanged. Even the compression ratio is identical at 9.0:1"
The NA 4G63 motors are very DIFFERENT from Turbo 4G63s, same as 4B11Ts are so different from NA 4B11s running on regular lancers.
FACT: The RA's 4B11T motor is exactly the same as the X's 4B11T
Source: http://www.insideline.com/mitsubishi...-ralliart.html
"The engine itself is identical to the one in the Evo, right down to the 86mm-by-86mm bore and stroke, semi-closed-deck block and forged crankshaft and pistons. A Mitsubishi product planner tells us that the engineers considered using less aggressive camshaft profiles for the Ralliart, but decided to keep them unchanged. Even the compression ratio is identical at 9.0:1"
The block is the same though, whether it be a 4B11 or a 4B11T. Sure the pistons may change, sure the rods may be different, but it's the same block right? Bringing the Evo into a Ralliart thread is ridiculous, they're different cars. Sure if you took all the parts of the Evo (turbo, intake setup, etc) you'd have the same engine but most won't do that so it's a moot point. We're talking about the 4B11T as it is in the Ralliart, not the Evo.
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 901
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From: CA
As an IT person, you should get my reference then. A good motherboard can be ruined if the person doesn't spend the money on a nice video card, fans, etc.
The block is the same though, whether it be a 4B11 or a 4B11T. Sure the pistons may change, sure the rods may be different, but it's the same block right? Bringing the Evo into a Ralliart thread is ridiculous, they're different cars. Sure if you took all the parts of the Evo (turbo, intake setup, etc) you'd have the same engine but most won't do that so it's a moot point. We're talking about the 4B11T as it is in the Ralliart, not the Evo.
The block is the same though, whether it be a 4B11 or a 4B11T. Sure the pistons may change, sure the rods may be different, but it's the same block right? Bringing the Evo into a Ralliart thread is ridiculous, they're different cars. Sure if you took all the parts of the Evo (turbo, intake setup, etc) you'd have the same engine but most won't do that so it's a moot point. We're talking about the 4B11T as it is in the Ralliart, not the Evo.
I think you are confusing the term "engine" with "powertrain". Powertrain is the motor plus all the supporting components like turbo, intake, etc. The engine IS essentially the motor, correct? The way I see what an engine is exactly matches what the way Edmunds sees it from the article:
"The engine itself is identical to the one in the Evo"
Yes the Evo and the RA have the same motor (4B11T) and essentially the same "engine". Yes, they have different supporting components like the turbo, intake, etc... which makes them different cars. Can we at least agree on that? LOL.
Last edited by tipoytm; Dec 17, 2009 at 12:04 PM.
As an IT person, you should get my reference then. A good motherboard can be ruined if the person doesn't spend the money on a nice video card, fans, etc.
The block is the same though, whether it be a 4B11 or a 4B11T. Sure the pistons may change, sure the rods may be different, but it's the same block right? Bringing the Evo into a Ralliart thread is ridiculous, they're different cars. Sure if you took all the parts of the Evo (turbo, intake setup, etc) you'd have the same engine but most won't do that so it's a moot point. We're talking about the 4B11T as it is in the Ralliart, not the Evo.
The block is the same though, whether it be a 4B11 or a 4B11T. Sure the pistons may change, sure the rods may be different, but it's the same block right? Bringing the Evo into a Ralliart thread is ridiculous, they're different cars. Sure if you took all the parts of the Evo (turbo, intake setup, etc) you'd have the same engine but most won't do that so it's a moot point. We're talking about the 4B11T as it is in the Ralliart, not the Evo.
the 4B11T in the hyundai is an open deck, the RA and the X is semi closed deck...
I hope you know what is that means in the boosted engine.
they have a same BASE design, but they shouldn't be rated a same....
quote;
"As expected, the block is sourced from the 4B11, the motor used in the new Lancer Ralliart (not to be confused with the 4B11T used in the Lancer Evolution X). [EDIT: Please read the update above, this engine, while related to the 4B11 is not the same block]. "
So there are lot more there then you think
http://www.genesisdriven.com/posts/2...-pictures.html
read around here too is not bad read at all if some one want to know more about the RA engine or the difference between the Hyundai vs Mitsu 4B11T.
http://www.gencoupe.com/2-0t/10524-o...s-arrived.html
so the 4B11 is even much more far from the 4B11T.
Last edited by Robevo RS; Dec 17, 2009 at 12:14 PM.
No, a good motherboard cannot be ruined if the person doesn't spend on a nice video card, fans etc. A video card ONLY helps with video processing (ie. games, 3D, etc.), but it doesn't make a computer run faster on regular applications or programs, or help with the boot time of your operating system (ie. Windows).
I think you are confusing the term "engine" with "powertrain". Powertrain is the motor plus all the supporting components like turbo, intake, etc. The engine IS essentially the motor, correct? The way I see what an engine is exactly matches what the way Edmunds sees it from the article:
"The engine itself is identical to the one in the Evo"
Yes the Evo and the RA have the same motor (4B11T) and essentially the same "engine". Yes, they have different supporting components like the turbo, intake, etc... which makes them different cars. Can we at least agree on that? LOL.
I think you are confusing the term "engine" with "powertrain". Powertrain is the motor plus all the supporting components like turbo, intake, etc. The engine IS essentially the motor, correct? The way I see what an engine is exactly matches what the way Edmunds sees it from the article:
"The engine itself is identical to the one in the Evo"
Yes the Evo and the RA have the same motor (4B11T) and essentially the same "engine". Yes, they have different supporting components like the turbo, intake, etc... which makes them different cars. Can we at least agree on that? LOL.
Apparently you are missing what I'm getting at. Lets say someone buys the top of the line motherboard, but combines it with a low-end video card, 256 MB of RAM, crappy fans, just low-end peripherals all the way around, will the computer perform that well? No, because while it has the capacity to, the things attached to it don't allow it to perform.
The Ralliart and Evo have the same short block, yes. How is that relevant though? Does it make the Ralliart faster? Does it make it handle better? No, it's irrelevant piece of information that you can use at a cocktail party to impress wannabe car people but it has no affect on a comparison review.
Dunno why either, he just keeps saying that he doesn't need one that fast... But that money isn't an issue. If the Evo or STi got considerably less gas mileage, that would make sense, but they don't. Why not get one that is faster while still maintaining a warranty?
i think it will blow your mind when i say the 4B11T is not a same in the Hyundai and the Mitsubishi /X-RA/ ?
they have a same BASE design, but they shouldn't be rated a same....
quote;
"As expected, the block is sourced from the 4B11, the motor used in the new Lancer Ralliart (not to be confused with the 4B11T used in the Lancer Evolution X). [EDIT: Please read the update above, this engine, while related to the 4B11 is not the same block]. "
So there are lot more there then you think
http://www.genesisdriven.com/posts/2...-pictures.html
read around here too is not bad read at all if some one want to know more about the RA engine or the difference between the Hyundai vs Mitsu 4B11T.
http://www.gencoupe.com/2-0t/10524-o...s-arrived.html
so the 4B11 is even much more far from the 4B11T.
they have a same BASE design, but they shouldn't be rated a same....
quote;
"As expected, the block is sourced from the 4B11, the motor used in the new Lancer Ralliart (not to be confused with the 4B11T used in the Lancer Evolution X). [EDIT: Please read the update above, this engine, while related to the 4B11 is not the same block]. "
So there are lot more there then you think
http://www.genesisdriven.com/posts/2...-pictures.html
read around here too is not bad read at all if some one want to know more about the RA engine or the difference between the Hyundai vs Mitsu 4B11T.
http://www.gencoupe.com/2-0t/10524-o...s-arrived.html
so the 4B11 is even much more far from the 4B11T.
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I'm making a distinction between the long block and the short block.
Apparently you are missing what I'm getting at. Lets say someone buys the top of the line motherboard, but combines it with a low-end video card, 256 MB of RAM, crappy fans, just low-end peripherals all the way around, will the computer perform that well? No, because while it has the capacity to, the things attached to it don't allow it to perform.
The Ralliart and Evo have the same short block, yes. How is that relevant though? Does it make the Ralliart faster? Does it make it handle better? No, it's irrelevant piece of information that you can use at a cocktail party to impress wannabe car people but it has no affect on a comparison review.
Apparently you are missing what I'm getting at. Lets say someone buys the top of the line motherboard, but combines it with a low-end video card, 256 MB of RAM, crappy fans, just low-end peripherals all the way around, will the computer perform that well? No, because while it has the capacity to, the things attached to it don't allow it to perform.
The Ralliart and Evo have the same short block, yes. How is that relevant though? Does it make the Ralliart faster? Does it make it handle better? No, it's irrelevant piece of information that you can use at a cocktail party to impress wannabe car people but it has no affect on a comparison review.
A NEW top-of-the-line motherboard will never be matched with 256MB of RAM because they don't make memory that small anymore, least memory you can get in the market right now for the latest motherboard generation is around 1GB, and usually they come in pairs so we are looking at a minimum of 2GB for the dual memory-bus architecture. Every fan you buy no matter what complies with basic thermal requirements after extensive manufacturer testing, the only time you will need an oversize fan is if you OVERCLOCK a CPU which is common with enthusiasts. A lowend videocard will never affect the processing power of the CPU and motherboard, the videocard is there to handle video processing which only boosts gaming performance and 3D apps, etc. (it won't make Windows 7 load any faster.)
How on earth are you talking about performance, handling, and other aspects of the car again? I thought we were only talking about the engine itself and it's reliability (ie. no history of blowing up on a stock car).
Last edited by tipoytm; Dec 17, 2009 at 12:26 PM.
This going OT again, but for Amby's enlightenment, here we go:
A NEW top-of-the-line motherboard will never be matched with 256MB of RAM because they don't make memory that small anymore, least memory you can get in the market right now for the latest motherboard generation is around 1GB, and usually they come in pairs so we are looking at a minimum of 2GB for the dual memory-bus architecture. Every fan you buy no matter what complies with basic thermal requirements after extensive manufacturer testing, the only time you will need an oversize fan is if you OVERCLOCK a CPU which is common with enthusiasts. A lowend videocard will never affect the processing power of the CPU and motherboard, the videocard is there to handle video processing which only boosts gaming performance and 3D apps, etc. (it won't make Windows 7 load any faster.)
How on earth are you talking about performance, handling, and other aspects of the car again? I thought we were only talking about the engine itself and it's reliability (ie. no history of blowing up).
A NEW top-of-the-line motherboard will never be matched with 256MB of RAM because they don't make memory that small anymore, least memory you can get in the market right now for the latest motherboard generation is around 1GB, and usually they come in pairs so we are looking at a minimum of 2GB for the dual memory-bus architecture. Every fan you buy no matter what complies with basic thermal requirements after extensive manufacturer testing, the only time you will need an oversize fan is if you OVERCLOCK a CPU which is common with enthusiasts. A lowend videocard will never affect the processing power of the CPU and motherboard, the videocard is there to handle video processing which only boosts gaming performance and 3D apps, etc. (it won't make Windows 7 load any faster.)
How on earth are you talking about performance, handling, and other aspects of the car again? I thought we were only talking about the engine itself and it's reliability (ie. no history of blowing up).
The 2010 WRX has no history of blowing up.
Last edited by ambystom01; Dec 17, 2009 at 12:25 PM.