richardjh

No, no difference. While the raw tables differ quite a bit, the actual 2011 timing used at idle is not what you see in the High Octane Timing Map. There is other stuff going on in the 2011 ROM between that table and final timing advance.


Please understand... I'm not a professional tuner, and I didn't put together this set of base maps. Bryan (razorlab) created the base tune itself - chose boost levels, designed the MIVEC timing, revised the ignition timing, fuelling, etc. I've contributed to areas like more advanced boost control for better accuracy, the SST-related table sets, fast logging patches, porting to other ROMs, etc. When it comes to ignition timing, fuelling, etc., that is all razorlab's amazing work.

Yes, Bryan did work on dyno-tuning a lot of RAs, EVOs and other vehicles. He also used to "e-tune" customers. For Ralliart, that work went into these Base Maps.


A note for the uninitiated. These are called BASE maps because they are intended as a tuning starting point. Some people are happy to use them as an off-the-shelf street tune.


You mentioned the TBE/AEM stuff. Yes, there is a big improvement... but once you get this far beyond the original tune, you do need to know what you are doing. You need to log and review the data to make sure the tune is safe for YOUR vehicle. In my opinion, a loggable wideband is a must. I would also recommend throwing the stock RA intercooler in the bin and replacing it with an Evo X FMIC (or after-market item).


Cheers,

Rich

bwen90

I have no idea if I did it right but here are my logs. Just rename to ".csv" I put it in xml to be able to upload. let me know if I did right please

Nega

Well, got my boost pill today and during my test log with 3.1 BoostPill maps, I logged a 4 knocksum @ 5500rpm, 200 load, boost @ 20psi. dunno if it is anything to worry about or not but if someone more experienced than I could have a look...

richardjh

Unfortunately, it looks like you're running an EvoScan mode that isn't quite right. Some of the columns aren't valid - for those, it's reading incorrect memory addresses, I reckon.

Far better that you follow the instructions I uploaded about using EvoScan's "RAX Fast Logging" mode. That stuff is always right, and is way faster. That mode you're using is delivering 3-4 lines a second of data, which isn't very useful.

I'm guessing these columns are valid: KnockSum, RPM, Boost, TimingAdv. They look valid. I wouldn't freak out over a single instance of knocksum of 4... but (1) your data logging rate needs to improve, (2) we need confidence in all the data, and (3) you need more runs to establish a pattern, or lack thereof.

Boost levels look good.

One thing... blasting through the gears from a standing start isn't as useful for tuning/review as a third-gear pull. For example, throttle off in 3rd, coast down to 2000rpm, then floor the throttle. Hold full throttle for the range you want to test, eg. 2000-4000rpm for a spool-up/midrange rpm test. 2000-7000rpm for full rev range pull.


Another thing... the way these maps (and our factory ROMs) work is that they progressively enrich fuelling the more you thrash the car. Your fuelling would have got pretty rich by the time you got over 5000rpm in 4th. From experience, I'd guess you were well into the 10.xx:1 mixtures by then. Seeing random knock at those mixtures isn't uncommon. A lot of pro tunes disable this enrichment (called, ironically, "lean spool"), and shoot for predictable mixtures. Done that on my personal tune... not going there with Base Maps!

You should try switching EvoScan to "RAX Fast Logging", and go for a log of a 3rd gear pull.


Your RAX Fast Logging mode is working. Cool.

However, it's pretty slow. If you have funky gauges up on-screen, please disable them. Gauges cripple EvoScan's logging rate.

Also, if there's a tick-box for "multithreading" in the EvoScan menu ("Files", I think), disable it. That mucks stuff up, and doesn't make it log faster.


Boost control looks good.

You're getting some midrange knock there.

Please confirm the fuel you're using, and the selection of map for octane (eg. 91oct vs. 93oct).

What's your weather there? Intake Air Temp is reading from 40 to 47. Is that Celsius? If so, maybe back off on WOT testing of newly ported maps. When boost first hits 20psi (139kPa), intake air temp is 44C, and manifold air temp is 52C. That's pretty hot ambient temp to be out testing in.

Are you still sporting the tiny factory intercooler? Or do you have a larger one on there?


Rich

bwen90

Hi rich, ill try a second run with the useless stuff disabled I'll update today. I do have tho stock intercooler. Everything is in celcius and kph. Im in edmonton alberta here. Nothing abnormal when I did the run. No crazy heat here. I have a long drive to do today would you recommend that I switch back to stock pill just to be sure? I am using 91 octane all the time

bwen90

THe IAT doesn't seem to move, I think it's bugged. It's 26 outside. celcius. sunny, dry weather. hope this helps. Disabled multithreading

1SikZ

Made it back to 93 octane country without any hiccups! I do still need to do some logging though.

richardjh

So you flashed 2013_RA_USDM_BaseMap_BoostPILL_91oct_V31.003.hex right?

I'm not sure why you were getting that knock at 18-20psi. Nor am I sure why IAT was reading 42C+. Very odd, that one.

Rich

richardjh

IAT is moving. Also, your IAT is consistent with your (46-47C) Manifold Air Temps (60C, which is really high).

What is your intake setup? Are you using the factory intake that sucks nice, cold air from the front via the plastic piping over the battery?

Rich

basher519

iTrader: (1)

highest knocksum log.xml

This is the log with the highest amount of knocksums I had, and I believe the only that had 2 for any values, so I thought it would be the most important. IT IS NOT A TYPICAL TESt LOG THOUGH, I THINK JUST DRIVING ON THE FREEWAY.

I was doing the partial full throttle on most of the others as well as some freeway driving zipping through gears. I have about 20 other logs if you want/need any of those (dropped to 2k in 2nd gear, floored it, shifted to 3rd and dropped off after a couple seconds).

75% of the total logs have 0 knocksum, which seems good to me lol. I can't say I really understand most of what at the values mean in conjunction with one another, but I know a lot of you do.

Hope this helps! Ordering my boostpill tonight too =P

***If anyone has a boostpill they no longer use, PM me!***

richardjh

Looks great.

Not a worry. Unless it's consistent and reproducible, knocksum of 1-2 is just chatter.

Also, it occurred at the moment you throttled off, so likely just some noise that got mis-interpreted as low-level knock. Also, the ECU discarded it - knocksum went directly from 2 to 0 at line 133. If it thinks it is (or was) knock, it will decay, not step to 0.

Rich

basher519

iTrader: (1)

Thanks! Can't wait for my boost pill to come in =)

bwen90

Yes my car is all stock. I have catback thats all

bwen90

I did put the right map a d I am fueling 91 oct. Is the knocm dangerous for my engine?

richardjh

I'm not happy with it, that's for sure. ECU pulled timing, but that's a reactive thing. You want to get the tune right in the first place.

So far, both 2013 Boost Pill log examples have shown knock occurrences around 5000rpm.

And, as yet, no wideband data. The reason I've sat on these maps until now (ie. June/July 2013) has been because nobody has come forward with a 2013 fitted with a loggable wideband.

It seems 2013 ROM may be doing something funny that previous ROMs were not doing. There is a precedent for this - Evo X AFR tuning went off into the Twilight Zone at some point, when 2012 ROMs came out. Some pro tuners just gave up on that ROM series, and bench-flashed older year ROMs.

But that's currently a guess. Because no widebands.


So...


I reckon you should refit the stock pill. You should reflash back to stockpill tune.



Nobody should be running the 2013 BoostPill Base Maps without a loggable wideband, so we can see what AFR is doing.


Sorry, but it's the only sensible thing to do.


[edit]I've REMOVED the maps from the earlier post, so people don't continue grabbing them and running them without a wideband.


Rich