03chi-town0Z

iTrader: (7)

So, we all know, and can agree, that these are great maps. But how awesome can a free basemap really be? Allow me to share my experiences with the GST 93 octane TBE Boostpill map.

Ever since running into some issues pushing my RalliArt to go faster and faster, I decided I would take a little break and kick it down a notch to preserve the reliability of the car while other things in my life were taking more precedence and costing more to the point where I could not afford a major vehicle failure any time soon. So I partially parted-out the car of a few things and got it to the point where I was happy just flashing the GST v.30 map and driving the car daily while still being able to have a little fun with it.

Well, as we all know, the speed bug does not stay at bay for long, but I still didn't want to do much more to the car since I needed to keep it safe. So, how do you go faster without adding parts or tuning? You remove weight, of course. I have done some digging into this car to shed precious few ounces and pounds here and there, and plan on continuing to do so until I have absolutely nothing left to give. This has seemingly made the car even more fun to drive and I feel like it handles a little better with the lightened load, though that could be mostly placebo.

So what does this all have to do with the GST map? I decided upon installing the flash that I would make it a point of seeing exactly what this tune is capable of on a well prepared and driven car. We all know it increases power and smooths out acceleration, shifting, etc., but to what degree?

First I started analyzing my logs and watching my wideband/boost gauge very thoroughly and saw some things I wasn't perfectly happy with. My Cruise LTFT was always positive (+5 to +8) and my logged AFR was showing lean (12's and even touching into 13's at times) and that was just a little higher than I wanted to see. So I started doing some searching and that led me to try rescaling my MAF sensor. Even though the car is modded appropriately for the basemap, I did make some further, minor modifications to some of the parts, in an attempt to increase airflow/power, and I'm guessing those modifications may have been enough to lean the mixture. Once the MAF was dialed in, LTFT was consistently between 0-1 and AFR holds steady in the mid-high 11's. I did NOT make any changes to the actual tune on the car, only set it up to properly "fit" my vehicle/mods specifically. The car was ready to run.

So we went to the track today and I was coaching my fiance on launching and driving down the drag strip for her first time, and on her 5th pass of the day she managed a 1.79 60ft and ran a 12.79 @ 104.43. This is with a full (appearing) interior with all accessories installed and functional, all seats and console/dash/door items were installed, the only thing removed from the car was the spare tire, jack, and tire change tools. I'll try to get an accurate weight later this week.

Clearly this is a VERY capable tune that we should all be EXTREMELY thankful to have at our disposal for FREE!

Big thanks, once again, to Bryan and Rich for all of their hard work that has gone into delivering one of the best FREE assets available to this RA community.

bwen90

Whats your point rich? If we get a wideband we can analyze the afr and the decide if it's suitable or what? Will they be modified so they work better? Do you think if I try fueling on 94 and putting the 93 maps here it'll remove the knock? We only have 94 and 91 octane here

importboi22

hey rich,

Just ordered a boost pill for my 2013. I wouldnt mind doing some wide band tuning.... but I do not know of anyone in long beach, ca area that would be willing to set something up with me. So if anyone has a wideband lmk!

nunyas

iTrader: (2)

His point is the '13 boost pill maps haven't been vetted by people with '13 cars equipped with wideband logging. Without logs from '13 cars setup for wideband logging, there is no way to know what the fueling is doing or why there is knock in the 5k RPM region. If he doesn't know why it's knocking, he can't fix it or know how bad it might be underneath.

At this point, it appears the '13 cars are in a chicken and egg moment. They can't get the boost pill ROMs until someone gets log data to Rich that includes wideband data. However, most people won't add a wideband until after they've installed a boostpill rom...

richardjh

My point is, your results differ from those expected, and we don't have all the data we need to work out why. Knocksum of 9 is not normal...



Without a wideband, we're flying blind.


The other puzzle is: WHY is intake air temp 42C when it ambient air temp is 26C? IAT is measured between the air filter and the turbo, so it should be reasonably cool. Air is being sucked in at a point over the front spoiler - not from the hot engine bay (as you are not running one of those pod filter things). Hot IAT means the intercooler has lots of work to do, and the RA intercooler is small... so manifold air temp was still pretty hot.

I can't work out why your IAT would be up that high, given you're on factory intake.


Now, it may be that your particular vehicle differs from most, and needs particular attention to get it "right". Every engine is different. Perhaps nobody else will have issues. Perhaps it's mixtures, or perhaps it's just a one-off crazy knock incident blown out of proportion. Important note: Knocksum of 9 isn't something to gloss over.


When it comes to saferty, I'm not prepared to throw the dice and hope... so these 2013 boostpill maps will stay offline until we can progress a couple of cars with logged wideband data.

Rich

bwen90

Ok thank you rixh tnaks for the hard work. Il see if I can get a wideband. The air filter box is just by the engine tho.... my friend has a 2013 and ge was recording 39 degrees at intake. He has the aem coldair. By the way the pill gave this car so much. I find it boring now that its off. I got back to factory tune

richardjh

Yes, it's quite a transformation, isn't it! You should be fine on Base Map stockpill tune until we can get AFR logged - no need to subject yourself to factory tune!

Regarding IAT, it does go pretty high when you sit still for a while with a hot engine, particularly when there is no wind. Hot air from the radiator area does get sucked in, and with little airflow, engine bay heat does crank the measured temp up. But when moving, and with throttle open, I'd be surprised to see IAT more than 8-12C over ambient.

One other bugbear is fuel quality. If you get a bad tank of fuel - that isn't the posted octane - you'll be more likely to get knock.


Rich

bwen90

Yeah ok. I get it. Anywhere I can get a wideband for not so expensive(since it'll be for testing only). Do you want me to try another gas station maybe with the 93 octane map? With some 94 gas. I'm currently using gas issued by superstore. Or president's choice related. I could try petro canada. They are known for having good gas quality

RALLI||||||RAT

I just installed the boost pill and flashed with the 93 + boost pill map. What a ***** to get to that damn pill hahah

I use Petro canada 94 and works awesome!!

gonna try and log in the next few days.

CFMP RAblue

I would stay away from noname gas ie Superstore gas. Best to go with Shell or Petro Canada.

It should never be just for testing but monitoring all the time, think of it as a little safety net.

hotkupa

iTrader: (1)

I read article one time that 1 out of every 3 gas stations in NJ sells regular as 93.

richardjh

Yep. I fitted a gauge for just that reason. Plus, 24x7 standalone logging.

I went with Innovate LC-1 wbo2, and Innovate XD-16 gauge. Not cheap, and a total pain to get it working in the first place. However, it has worked flawlessly ever since.

I wouldn't be without it.

Rich

RALLI||||||RAT

Ok I just talked to a buddy of mine, very knowledgeable with turbo cars.

Told him I put in the pill and the Map for it and his eyes opened wide and said that the pill causes pinging. And that this "free map" was not a true tune to stop the pinging. (he said it was pre-detination??) says it is caused by going into a boost range that is not tuned.

Well i asked what this ping would sound like and he said sounds like frying beacon?? wtf?

He says it will not happen right away it's something that will take time. seals will go sooner and other stuff.

Is this true?


Thanks all

Accursed

I've been off the board for a couple of months. Come back and Rich has a '13 Boost pill map ready(-ish?).

Have had a pill and tactrix collecting dust as I bought them before I realized there where no maps. I haven't done the wideband (as I think the wife might kill me). Would I be better off waiting for those that have widebands to report back or is it relatively safe to flash even with no wideband?

Thank you in Advance....

richardjh

Always good to consult with people, but in this case, he does need to do his research in this particular area before coming to conclusions.


The boost pill is simply a tool for gaining additional headroom when it comes to the level of boost available.

Hopefully the information below will be a useful starting point for understanding stuff.


This is a Base Map that is intended as a starting point for vehicle-specific tuning. In the majority of cases, Ralliart owners find that the Base Maps operate perfectly well without much (if any) tweaking.

The reason why we are logging and reviewing is to verify that, spot issues like this, address them (sometimes in a vehicle-specific case) and keep on providing the RA community with this rather unique resource.


There is a lot of material online that you can research here. You should look it up, and understand what is going on when people talk about knock, pinging, detonation, pre-ignition.

Note 1: The knocksum of 9 shown in the logs (and graph image) earlier was not "pre-ignition", which is when the compressed fuel/air mix just ignites all by itself before the spark plug fires.


If you just slap a boost pill on without any ECU tuning, yes, you'll push into map "load" areas that are not tuned.

If you fit a boost pill and reflash to a Base Map Boostpill ROM that is designed for the fuel octane, exhaust and intake in use, you are on the right track. As noted earlier, in the majority of cases, you will run at correct boost levels, with safe fuelling and appropriate ignition timing.

If fuel quality is worse, you'll get knock. That's what the knock sensor picks up, thanks to a whole load of clever signal processing, interpreted by the ECU. It allows the ECU to react very fast to detected knock, ie. retard ignition timing.

knocksum of 3 results in 1 degree ignition timing retard for a brief period. knocksum of 9 results in 3 degrees retard, etc.

So there is knock "prevention" (by getting the tune right for each vehicle) and knock "reduction" (thanks to ECU timing retard response). Prevention means getting the tune right for each vehicle (and fuel).

Bear in mind, the Ralliart comes tuned from factory for a certain type of fuel. The ECU can adjust the tune dynamically based on how much knock it sees. It adjusts an "octane" value on a sliding scale of 100 (good fuel) to 0 (lousy fuel). Seeing frequent knocksum > 6 prompts the ECU to reduce its octane value. This is a mechanism that is built into every ROM... but no tuner in their right mind would ever want to "manage" fuelling/timing map processing based on lots of knock. Yes, it's as ugly as it sounds. Doing it properly involves getting the tune right in the first place.


In Evolution X and Ralliart, it has a distinctive sound, thanks to the alloy used in this engine construction. Audible pinging is loud and noticeable. It sounds like ball bearings pinging off metal, or like you've just driven through some tiny metallic stones being kicked up onto the metal underside of the vehicle.


Whatever "it" is, "it" shouldn't happen at all, because...

1. Any Base Map user (particularly new release/model testers) should be logging.
2. Logs should be reviewed as a priority by someone who knows what to look for (putting my hand up).
3. Any anomaly will be addressed so as to eliminate any spark knock.


We've done 1 and 2, and have moved to address in the short term by removing the new 2013 Base Map Boostpill versions until someone gets a air/fuel meter installed in their vehicle! The lack of wideband-fitted 2013 Ralliarts is exactly why we're in July 2013 now without released Boostpill Base Maps.


Bear in mind, at any stage, you can take your vehicle to a reputable tuner and get a 100% custom dyno tune, aimed specifically at your particular vehicle. They might use a boost pill (cheap, effective), or they might use a 3-port boost controller (not so cheap, also effective). Their choice, or yours.

Be aware... some tuners use this Base Map as a starting point. Especially for the SST table changes, boost control patches and fast logging patch built in.


Hope this helps.

Rich