I was driving my car and got some brake fade, not to the point of the brakes completely dying but they were pretty bad. I was wondering how brakes fade? Is it just slowly they die or do they just all of a sudden cut? If this is relevant, I have hawk pads. Thanks.

 

brake fade is when you reach the maximum operating temp of a pad...
Where you on track when it happened?

 

I can go either way I think ... the pads fade slowly but the fluid can boil quickly and be fine in one corner and gone in the next.

 

thats scary!

damn does anyone else brakes smell a lot after driving even though they did not brake that hard?

 

If you feel your driving doesn't warrant the amount of heat generated, you should probably check out your brake system, and make sure your pads/rotors aren't dragging

 

Start here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brake_fade &
http://www.promini.com/technical/tec..._explained.php

To answer your question, in most cases pad fade just feels like your brakes are geasy, like someone put butter on them or something. You'll find yourself adding more pressure to try and stop as originally desired and usually you'll make it just in time. At this point, you should let the brakes cool down.

Now depending how long you do the above, or if you are running a high temp pad, or you have old or low temp brake fluid, you may get brake fluid boiling. This one is worse. You put your foot on the brakes and it feels like a sponge. I had it bad enough that it felt like the clutch pedal @ 110mph (track). Now this is scary! Fortunately I had about 1/5 mile of runoff and used most of it. At this point, just try to pump the brakes as fast as you can to try and compress all the gas. Use the handbrake and downshifting at the same time to try and slow down. If you have no run-off...then start praying. My case was really bad and in many cases you will feel the pedal getting spongier progressively and a few pumps should get you to scrub off enough speed to make the corner off line.... but at this time, you better stop and find the cause of your issues. BTW, in my case, it was a stuck rear brake proportioning valve, effectively making the rear brakes drag on the straights... after a 10 mins...the fluid has had it.

 

What pads/fluid are you running?

Try bleeding your brakes and flushing the system with ATE Superblue.

 

Stock fluid and hawk pads. The place where this happens is like a canyon road near my house. I drive it all the time. Only problem is that if the brakes cut, I'm dead. There are cliffs left and right. I was just wondering that if they cut all of a sudden or do they go slowly? Right when I notice my brakes feel kind of weak and "sticky", I slow down. Thanks.

 

wow scary ...

 

There is a very fundamental technique to performance braking that many new drivers fail to understand.

Being gentle on the brakes is bad.

This is something that goes against all common logic I know, and everyone tells you to "Be smooth to go fast.", and that is definitely true. But when you use your brakes, you should do it as quickly as possible. Any time your pad is engaging the rotor, they are generating heat, and can not cool down. Babying the brakes by dragging them gently over longer distances generates tons of heat. So while being as smooth as possible, brake hard, get off as quickly as possible, and gently accelerate through the turn. It works, trust me. You will notice a big difference in your brake's performance, and it inadvertently improves your times. (more time spent on the throttle, waiting later to brake harder)

I've shared this technique with several people personally, and they're always amazed at how much longer their brakes take to fade.

 

I would be a hippicrate to say that Ive never drove like an idiot on tight mountain roads like that, but try to get to a track day. It will open your eyes and you can safely push the limits of your car.

No, brake fade dosn't 'cut' immediately but the brakes start to not 'bite' as good as they use to, the pedal can get soft, and overall brake performance is reduced. It won't be "all there, then nothing", but you could start to heat soak your brakes and lose them with a few hard applications, but you'll feel them starting to go.


What Hawk pads do you have? I would recommend flushing your brake fluid with ATE Superblue as its inexpensive and has a much higher wet and dry boiling point than stock fluid.

Go to the track!

 

Agreeeeeed... go to the track! Mountain roads are fun, but if you're worried about your safety and asking questions about how something will feel when it goes wrong, head out to a track and see what happens under relatively safe conditions.

Stuntman is right again in saying you should replace your fluid. Fluid issues ARE NOT FADE. I was told fade is when a layer of gas created by scorching your pads buffers the friction on your rotor. If your brake feel comes back after your pads cool down, then its a fluid issue. The oil in your brake lines can boil and create a compressible gas and can't escape because its in the sealed system. The gas in your pads can escape as soon as you lift off and bring temperatures down.

I could be wrong on the gas thing, I've been wrong before, but even if its just liquefying, it still comes down to the same ideas.

 

ATE Superblue FTW for sure. For simple canyon driving that and some decent street pads will be wonderful. For the track you may end up with needing higher strength pads. First time I took the Porsche to the track it had serious "fade," its most likely due to the fact that I'm pretty sure it still has the original factory fluid in it ATE Superblue will be put in it as soon as it warms up a bit more here and the track opens up.

Also, stuntman is totally right, the key is finding that perfect amount of pressure and timing so that you're not riding your brakes, persay, but you're also not getting the car horrible off balanced.

 

I'll see your super blue and raise you Motul 600.

If you feel real froggy go with SRF but I mean really... how many of us need that?

I also second the "attack the binders then get off of them" method as it works and helps. Dragging the brakes will not let them cool and compounds heat issues.

Also, how old are your pads? If they are new you may not have them quite set yet. New pads need to be gassed a few times to really settle in so get em hot and let them cool, get them hot and let them cool... a few cycles and they will work MUCH better.

 

Good advice, and remember never to come to a complete stop using your super-heated brakes. Completely stopping, even for just a second when they're really hot, can cause your pads to "stick" to the rotors, leaving a deposit of pad material in that spot on the rotors and cause pulsing for a long time. (many people confuse this with warped rotors)

Best to cruise around a couple of minutes and let them cool without using them. If you think they still may be hot, try to coast to a stop and use your E-brake a little if needed. The Evo's E-brake is a separate mechanical drum brake that will not cause material deposits on the rotors.