Double Clutching
You do double clutching to down shift.
Long time ago when the syncros weren't introduced in cars, everyone had to rev match the car in order for you to downshift.
People double clutch these days to:
1. drive smoother
2. rev match down to 2nd gear from 4th gear without jerking on a turn
3. Do to a toe to heel
What they're talking about in the Fast and the Furious is not the double clutching but Clutch kicking.
Clutch kicking is used on many low powered Honda's to squeeze more kick out of the engine when racing.
Cluch kicking puts a load on your transmission tho. It's basically when you rev up all the way then push in the clutch real quick and out while the foots still on the throttle.
Now Cluch kicking could be used somewhat in Drag racing. What people do is have the foot on the throttle all the way in the whole time they're doing their 1/4 mile run. While you're doing this, you shift very quick and push in the clutch real quick in and out.
This is called the powershifting. You see a lot of test driver does this and it's very difficult thing to do, since you have to shift your shifter fast enough to get in gear.
With combination of all these, you could be a great daily driver and in some ways you could actually put less load on your transmission, thus making your car last longer.
the end.
Long time ago when the syncros weren't introduced in cars, everyone had to rev match the car in order for you to downshift.
People double clutch these days to:
1. drive smoother
2. rev match down to 2nd gear from 4th gear without jerking on a turn
3. Do to a toe to heel
What they're talking about in the Fast and the Furious is not the double clutching but Clutch kicking.
Clutch kicking is used on many low powered Honda's to squeeze more kick out of the engine when racing.
Cluch kicking puts a load on your transmission tho. It's basically when you rev up all the way then push in the clutch real quick and out while the foots still on the throttle.
Now Cluch kicking could be used somewhat in Drag racing. What people do is have the foot on the throttle all the way in the whole time they're doing their 1/4 mile run. While you're doing this, you shift very quick and push in the clutch real quick in and out.
This is called the powershifting. You see a lot of test driver does this and it's very difficult thing to do, since you have to shift your shifter fast enough to get in gear.
With combination of all these, you could be a great daily driver and in some ways you could actually put less load on your transmission, thus making your car last longer.
the end.
heel toe and double clutching are similar but different. sorry there plokivos, but you're wrong your double clutch when upshifting to match the gears. You were righ the fact it was used on old trannies before they came out with synchros. You do not double clutch when downshifting. If you do you are wrong, you are double clutching. If you are double clutching while braking I will blow by you when braking. Thats called out braking. But thats a different story. here is what i've learned and applied from 5yrs of road racing
heel toeing:
going from 4th to 3rd. Say you are at 100mph in 4th gear. Your RPMs in 4th at 100mph is probably around 6000. If you were to drop to third at this point you would over rev the engine and ka boom. As you are coming into the turn you start applying the brakes with your right foot. For reference sake, at about 5000rpm you press the clutch in while you are still braking. Now you want to get to third to be in your power band to hold speed and accelerate out of the corner. When the clutch is released you rotate the heel of your right foot over the gas keeping the ball of your right foot down and pressed on the brake pedal, remember you are still braking. You press the heel of your right foot on the gas while the clutch is disengaged, thus bringing up your rpms. You are doing a stab on the gas to get your rpms up to about 7000rpm (remember just using 'guess' numbers here). And at the same time push the shifter up to 3rd gear. Remember to release to let off the gas when you are at the proper rpm. Once in gear release the clutch. If you did it correctly the, when you release the clutch there will be no jerking of the car when you release the clutch. That is down shifting.
Double clutching:
used in old trannies before synchros were made
going from 2nd to 3rd. you'll have to excuse my typos because i have a gunnery sergeant behind chomping on chips and annoying the **** outta me. you are accelerating, press the clutch in and move the shifter to neutral then release the clutch. Then press the clutch in again press the gas to rev the engine and press the shifter up to 3rd gear, now release the clutch. You do not do this with modern cars because we have synchros. There is no reason for it. Before you had to align the gears as your were shifting so you would have smooth engagments. Double clutching, is just that, pressing the clutch in TWICE, hence the title double clutch. When heel toe down shifting, you press the clutch in ONCE
Also, in actual power shifting you do not use the clutch at all. You quickly release the gas and jam the shifter into the next gear. Domestics with stronger trannies are able to do this, but are cars are not. There is also something called no lift shift. Its a computer control that allows you to shift without letting off the gas. You hold the gas to the floor so your rpms do not fall below a certain point. You press the clutch in and shift without lifting off the gas.
Clutch kicking or clutch dropping? When i launch, which is good for 1.6's on the 60' i release my clutch quickly, lifting off. For you people that slide your foot off the side and let the clutch just 'drop' you'll be replacing your tranny soon. That is an insane amount of pressure VERY suddenly applied to the tranny and xcase.
I love people make up terms like speed shifting and whatever else for when you're racing. People make it sound like they've learned a new trick or something. I know when I race i try to shift as fast as possible. So do I fast shift? No I simply shift as fast as I can. Its not a technique, its common sense, the longer you are out of gear, the less time you are on the gas and going faster. So get your shifts done faster, its not a technique. Just cause Dominic (Vin Diesel) said you double clutch when you up shift doesnt' mean its right
heel toeing:
going from 4th to 3rd. Say you are at 100mph in 4th gear. Your RPMs in 4th at 100mph is probably around 6000. If you were to drop to third at this point you would over rev the engine and ka boom. As you are coming into the turn you start applying the brakes with your right foot. For reference sake, at about 5000rpm you press the clutch in while you are still braking. Now you want to get to third to be in your power band to hold speed and accelerate out of the corner. When the clutch is released you rotate the heel of your right foot over the gas keeping the ball of your right foot down and pressed on the brake pedal, remember you are still braking. You press the heel of your right foot on the gas while the clutch is disengaged, thus bringing up your rpms. You are doing a stab on the gas to get your rpms up to about 7000rpm (remember just using 'guess' numbers here). And at the same time push the shifter up to 3rd gear. Remember to release to let off the gas when you are at the proper rpm. Once in gear release the clutch. If you did it correctly the, when you release the clutch there will be no jerking of the car when you release the clutch. That is down shifting.
Double clutching:
used in old trannies before synchros were made
going from 2nd to 3rd. you'll have to excuse my typos because i have a gunnery sergeant behind chomping on chips and annoying the **** outta me. you are accelerating, press the clutch in and move the shifter to neutral then release the clutch. Then press the clutch in again press the gas to rev the engine and press the shifter up to 3rd gear, now release the clutch. You do not do this with modern cars because we have synchros. There is no reason for it. Before you had to align the gears as your were shifting so you would have smooth engagments. Double clutching, is just that, pressing the clutch in TWICE, hence the title double clutch. When heel toe down shifting, you press the clutch in ONCE
Also, in actual power shifting you do not use the clutch at all. You quickly release the gas and jam the shifter into the next gear. Domestics with stronger trannies are able to do this, but are cars are not. There is also something called no lift shift. Its a computer control that allows you to shift without letting off the gas. You hold the gas to the floor so your rpms do not fall below a certain point. You press the clutch in and shift without lifting off the gas.
Clutch kicking or clutch dropping? When i launch, which is good for 1.6's on the 60' i release my clutch quickly, lifting off. For you people that slide your foot off the side and let the clutch just 'drop' you'll be replacing your tranny soon. That is an insane amount of pressure VERY suddenly applied to the tranny and xcase.
I love people make up terms like speed shifting and whatever else for when you're racing. People make it sound like they've learned a new trick or something. I know when I race i try to shift as fast as possible. So do I fast shift? No I simply shift as fast as I can. Its not a technique, its common sense, the longer you are out of gear, the less time you are on the gas and going faster. So get your shifts done faster, its not a technique. Just cause Dominic (Vin Diesel) said you double clutch when you up shift doesnt' mean its right
Last edited by ldstang50; Oct 20, 2004 at 10:56 AM.
I don't know what you're saying but double clutch when you downshift to bring your rev up. You don't need to double clutch when you upshift, since your RPM drops down.
I'm sorry, but maybe you need to read bit more carefully before jumping your guns.
Toe and heel is when you brake and double clutch. I do it all the time. You do that when you have to brake and shift at the same time. practically, you're doing a double clutching to downshift but your toe is braking while your heel helps rev match.
You could actually do Heel and toe, two ways. You could single clutch or double clutch.
I double clutch just because I'm use to it. I only single clutch on toe and heel when I don't have enough time to double clutch.
When you say, you don't use the clutch when powershifting, you're wrong. You're thinking about powerbraking when you throttle and brake at stop to let the tires spin.
Automatic cars do that.
There is another name for not using your clutch when shifting. It's called clutchless shifting where you nail a moment when you could shift without the clutch.
Like I say, Clutch Kicking is done mostly on N/A civics and RSX or honda's. Yes, it's not that great for transmission, but they don't have enough power to break their tranny in the first place and that's why they Clutch kick.
I wouldn't do it on my evo, I don't need to.
I get 1.6 on 60's too, so don't feel special. That's with a slipping clutch and I mean the clutch is wearn out and jumping rpms.
I'm sorry, but maybe you need to read bit more carefully before jumping your guns.
Toe and heel is when you brake and double clutch. I do it all the time. You do that when you have to brake and shift at the same time. practically, you're doing a double clutching to downshift but your toe is braking while your heel helps rev match.
You could actually do Heel and toe, two ways. You could single clutch or double clutch.
I double clutch just because I'm use to it. I only single clutch on toe and heel when I don't have enough time to double clutch.
When you say, you don't use the clutch when powershifting, you're wrong. You're thinking about powerbraking when you throttle and brake at stop to let the tires spin.
Automatic cars do that.
There is another name for not using your clutch when shifting. It's called clutchless shifting where you nail a moment when you could shift without the clutch.
Like I say, Clutch Kicking is done mostly on N/A civics and RSX or honda's. Yes, it's not that great for transmission, but they don't have enough power to break their tranny in the first place and that's why they Clutch kick.
I wouldn't do it on my evo, I don't need to.
I get 1.6 on 60's too, so don't feel special. That's with a slipping clutch and I mean the clutch is wearn out and jumping rpms.
Last edited by plokivos; Oct 20, 2004 at 11:10 AM.
on the old trannies when you double clutched you needed to press the gas in because of the pause when you pressed the clutch in then released and pressed it in again to shift. your rpms dropped to about idle. the pressing of the gas aligned the gears. you are correct when downshifting your have to press the gas, like you said to rev match.
think of what you're saying, double clutch, pressing in the clutch twice, to you press the clutch in twice when you PROPERLy downshift?
No i'm right, you do NOT use the CLUTCH when you power shift. Clutchless shifting as you call it, is something I haven't heard. Maybe its a new term. But power shifting was the original term of shifting without using the clutch
think of what you're saying, double clutch, pressing in the clutch twice, to you press the clutch in twice when you PROPERLy downshift?
No i'm right, you do NOT use the CLUTCH when you power shift. Clutchless shifting as you call it, is something I haven't heard. Maybe its a new term. But power shifting was the original term of shifting without using the clutch
You're thinking about powershiftng in domastic race cars that has sequential transmission.
I'm talking about when you're shifting without lifting your gas throttle and single clutch while you shift.
This is also known to some as speed shifting.
I always double clutch when downshifting. It's easier on my crappy mitsubishi Transfer case, since I'm not working my Syncro gears to death.
I double clutch when I'm shifting from 5th to 4th. I always double shift.
I can't normal shift anymore, I just immediately double shift. I'm too used to it.
I'm talking about when you're shifting without lifting your gas throttle and single clutch while you shift.
This is also known to some as speed shifting.
I always double clutch when downshifting. It's easier on my crappy mitsubishi Transfer case, since I'm not working my Syncro gears to death.
I double clutch when I'm shifting from 5th to 4th. I always double shift.
I can't normal shift anymore, I just immediately double shift. I'm too used to it.
You clutch twice for this.
You clutch once to get the gear in Neutral. Rev match. Clutch and put the gear in the proper gear. let go of the clutch. This all happens in a second. Toe and heeling should be faster.
This is how its done by me. You could always skip the second clutch and leave the clutch in and shift gear and rev match. That's called the single clutching.
You clutch once to get the gear in Neutral. Rev match. Clutch and put the gear in the proper gear. let go of the clutch. This all happens in a second. Toe and heeling should be faster.
This is how its done by me. You could always skip the second clutch and leave the clutch in and shift gear and rev match. That's called the single clutching.
what you just described IS double clutching, but its was used on old trannies to upshift. with proper down shifting you only press the clutch in once.
technically there are two forms of down shifting. Down shifting and double clutching. I use down shifting when i am coming to a stop light or want to get to a lower gear to accelerate quicker, clutch in, rev the engine put the shifter in the next lower gear and release the clutch. heel toe you are using the brake.
technically there are two forms of down shifting. Down shifting and double clutching. I use down shifting when i am coming to a stop light or want to get to a lower gear to accelerate quicker, clutch in, rev the engine put the shifter in the next lower gear and release the clutch. heel toe you are using the brake.
You clutch once to get the gear in Neutral. Rev match. Clutch and put the gear in the proper gear. let go of the clutch. This all happens in a second. Toe and heeling should be faster.
right thats how you double clutch to upshift. i'm not sure if you have ever driven an old truck, but you had to do exactly as you described to upshift. it wasn't something to make you go faster or accelerate harder, it was something you did just to shift gears.
sorry didn't realize you posted twice.
This is how its done by me. You could always skip the second clutch and leave the clutch in and shift gear and rev match. That's called the single clutching.
single clutching??? thats a comletely new term to me. never heard of it. Always refered to as downshifting, if you are going down in gears.
right thats how you double clutch to upshift. i'm not sure if you have ever driven an old truck, but you had to do exactly as you described to upshift. it wasn't something to make you go faster or accelerate harder, it was something you did just to shift gears.
sorry didn't realize you posted twice.
This is how its done by me. You could always skip the second clutch and leave the clutch in and shift gear and rev match. That's called the single clutching.
single clutching??? thats a comletely new term to me. never heard of it. Always refered to as downshifting, if you are going down in gears.
http://www.elecdesign.com/Articles/A...6137/6137.html
this a good sight to see why double clutching was used and how it was used
i'm taking off for school now. we'll discuss more tomorrow
this a good sight to see why double clutching was used and how it was used
i'm taking off for school now. we'll discuss more tomorrow
Last edited by ldstang50; Oct 20, 2004 at 12:57 PM.
no more discussion. You're ignorant. I'm through talking to you.
I'm talking about the cars now, not old cars. You could downshift how the hell you want to, I don't give a shlt. lol.
But I'm right, you're confused.
Alright, screw it, I'll come up next week and show you what I mean.
I'm talking about the cars now, not old cars. You could downshift how the hell you want to, I don't give a shlt. lol.
But I'm right, you're confused.
Alright, screw it, I'll come up next week and show you what I mean.
Last edited by plokivos; Oct 21, 2004 at 08:59 PM.
lol. You take this too seriously, and if you say you could drive, that's fine. But I drive all these techniques in daily driving.
I've been doing it for about 8 years +. So I don't think I'm wrong on what I'm doing, because they work pretty good.
But if you must, I'll come and hang out with you, on the premises of bonding as car guys and not hating fool.
I think you're saying the same thing as I am, but just slightly different. But I drive different on the track than my daily driving. So, that maybe something that's confusing to you.
I've been doing it for about 8 years +. So I don't think I'm wrong on what I'm doing, because they work pretty good.
But if you must, I'll come and hang out with you, on the premises of bonding as car guys and not hating fool.
I think you're saying the same thing as I am, but just slightly different. But I drive different on the track than my daily driving. So, that maybe something that's confusing to you.
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