I probably wouldn't take advice from a post that has incorrect information. Let's clear something up. Polyisobutylene is a colorless polymer and not a engine detergent. Think of those awful rubber kitchen gloves.. thats what it is. Hardly a engine detergent.

Google is your friend.

I too experienced the same phenomena after moving to CA. I chalk it up to the higher content e85 that is sold in this area year around since PIB is not very soluble in pure polar protic solvents.

 

Interesting comment about the possible relationship with ethanol content. I mistakenly wrote earlier that Tricities e85 is 72%. It's actually 75%. The place where I get e85 in Portland is consistently 82%. It's not a big increase, but it is a bit higher.

 

Not sure where you got your information. Certainly wont be noting any of your comments as accurate, expert commentary LOL

Here a cut/paste direct from Chevron regarding PIB:

Polyisobutylene (PIB)-based deposit-control fuel additives are
polymeric chemicals used as additives in engine fuel (such as
gasoline) to keep sludge, soot, oxidation products, and other
deposit precursors from forming deposits onto and harming key
engine parts. These deposits can rob an engine of power, reduce
fuel economy, and increase harmful emissions.

Heres the PDF link:
https://www.oronite.com/pdfs/polyiso...hipsummary.pdf

Post# 130 is still our best description of the gunk problem. Unless youre a Chemist / Automotive Engineer all this is just dis-information


I do like the humble gent who knows where he stands

 

Once again, butyl rubber aka PIB aka polyisobutylene is not a detergent. It is rubber.

Please re-read what you are posting." Polyisobutylene (PIB)-based deposit-control fuel additives"

Chevron is avoiding telling you what they are using in as a detergent. They are using a derivative of PIB. NOT PIB PIB-Mannichs/amines/succinimides are NOT what is collecting on our injectors.

If you apply this same logic to the Evo platform we're all driving "Evo 1's/Lancer ES's" depending how you look at it.

I'm fairly sure when I was trying to figure this thing out I read some chevron patents on the uspto relating to detergents. You can look them up, i promise PIB is not whats used.

If this issue was truly the FUEL's fault and not the design of the motor don't you think major car makers would be lobbying the lawmakers to change the process for manufacturing it? Or there would be some lawsuits for warranty reimbursement due to fuel contamination?

The only role the fuel plays is the content of e85 vs gasoline. Remember PIB is soluble in gas and not e85 this is why a tank of gas cleans the injectors. This is also why the association has been made about "where you get it".

It's not about being humble or arrogant, its about giving the community a better understanding of the information. Creating a theory thats logical and has explanation then being confident enough to throw it out in the open and defend it. I could've laid over and stopped fighting with you but i'll continue defending until someone blows my theory all to pieces and sends me packing.

The idea you're clinging to about the concentration of fuel additives is blown to bits by the GM testing data. PM me your email, i'll e-mail you the doc so you can read it for yourself.

Let me get something straight. I'm not trying to be arrogant and saying "I've got it completely right" because I have some grey area. Mainly to do with the conversion of the detergent to PIB. I'm an engineer but not a chemical engineer, the polarity of ethanol theory did in fact come from a chemical engineer I consulted.

Now, instead of just saying "this is right" because it was posted earlier and you "think" its right...... Show me why its right! I can show you why its wrong..... Show me why its right!

 

You Sir have made an error in your statement. PIB is certainly a solvent used in Gasoline

Did some digging & although this link is a bad copy of a white paper titled: Throttle Deposits in Automotive Gasoline Internal Combustion Engines

http://books.google.com/books?id=v-Z...posits&f=false

The PIB notes begin on pg 114-117. Seems to me this MS Engineer concluded that throttle deposits are made up of PIB

Post no. 130 is still our best, most detailed conclusion on the makeup of this gunk

 

AWESOME FIND DUDE!

jump over to page 117.

"In conclusion, the source of the deposit material is delivered by the PVC system and the deposit material originates as engine oil additives."

Go read it for yourself.

 

I'm trying to tell you all PIB buildup is not dependent on additives in the e85. It is dependent on Oil/PCV and the ratio of e85 to gas.

 

I daily drive on corn juice, I really need to take out my injectors and see what they look like. So far no problems.

 

Pulled mine this afternoon and they are filthy. They will be on the way back to FIC this week for cleaning.

 

The only thing anyone seems to be able to agree on is that running a few tanks of 93 through your car as a way of helping clear the injectors from extended use of E85.

I make it a point to run on 93 for a little while after running E for a few weeks. Just in case. I don't 650+ daily anyway.

 

We should start logging everyones crank case ventilation setups and ethanol content that report the issue.

e70 stock pcv -> no gunk
>e85 stock pcv -> gunk

my next test case will be no pcv and high ethanol content.

 

My last post I was saying I had pulled my injectors (1250cc FIC's) to inspect and send in for cleaning if necessary. I originally looked into them as I found one of the seals were starting to crack so not bad to pull them out and replace the seals and o-rings.
Anyway once out I found them to be quite dirty. I decided to send them back to FIC to have them cleaned and flow tested. I was quite surprised when I got the call from FIC saying they looked great and were spraying with in one percent of each other. I had them clean them anyway for that warm fuzzy but the after cleaning results were about the same as the original flow test. Just thought I would share what I found not that this would be the case for everyone. Cheers!

 

So...stock PCV or no? E%?

 

Stock PCV. E85.

 

Something else to add here.. what relationship does the amount of voltage that gets transferred to the tip of the injector play in deposit formation.

Note: I switch polarity at 1:00 and you start to see a fair amount of voltage on the tip.