I see you changed your argument once your previous one was eviscerated by the facts. It's not actually saving anyone any money as you previously claimed, but it's ok because "big oil" and OPEC.

and everyone knows it's impossible to find oil anywhere but in the middle east, I guess.

 

Sure there is oil in other places, but the fact is that we get the majority of our oil from there, and without significant govt redirection, its going to continue to come from there for a long time.

 

Years ago I used to frequent this forum

http://e85vehicles.com/e85/

If you want to discuss the finer points of ethanol, please go there!!!!

 

Since you’re crying foul, I guess I’m sorry if I jumped straight to checkmate. The “return on investment” concept prompted me. You must have known it was coming, but we can put it off for now.

I thought I made my point, but here is a study that supports my fact that ethanol lowers gas prices:
http://www.card.iastate.edu/publications/dbs/pdffiles/12wp528.pdf

Here are facts about corn ethanol and food prices:
http://www.fuelfreedom.org/myth-corn-ethanol-increases-food-prices/
http://www.ncga.com/topics/ethanol/corn-ethanol-and-food-prices

 

We (the US) get the majority of oil from where? OPEC? If that is what you meant that is not accurate. At least not according to the EIA.

And prospects have said there is more oil in Alaska then Saudi and Kuwait combined. And some have theorized that it even has more than all of OPEC combined.

What some of you need to understand is government is a business. And this business is fueled by other businesses. And usually the businesses with the most money wins elections and they are awarded legislation that helps their business. We have had the technology to get off oil as a means to energize our vehicles since the 60s. It has nothing to do with R&D or technology for the usage of e85 or being able to get off of fossil fuels or from the talons of big oil. It has to do with money as it usually always does. If there was another business that could trump the campaign contributions of oil then oil will always be apart of your life. When petro eventually runs out then those oil companies will then own the next generation of energy. Then the next generation argument will be monopolizing the usage of ie: electricity or hyrogen. Then people will be talking about how to get out of the talons of the big hydrogen companies which will probably be the same company as the big oil companies. Amazing circle of life we live in...

 

Here are some facts about EROI:
http://www.nebiofuels.org/pdfs/Energy%20Balance.pdf

As far as where we get our oil, sure the oil we use physically comes from Canada, Mexico and the US. We get practically none from the Middle East. Another fact is it’s a global marketplace. Even if we could get all of our oil from the US, if there is a problem with supply in the Middle East, our oil price will go up.

 

Ill throw in my .02 as an avid E-85 consumer. Oil is a finite resource. We are extracting it from the ground and refining it into fuel. There will come a day when this party will end and our global reserves will be depleted, or perhaps the cost to the environment will become to great to continue using it. The sun however is going to be giving us free energy for a long time. To me the way I spend my money has as much power if not more then my vote does. I choose to use E-85 because I want to support the R&D of underlying technologies used to produce it. There are other technologies that may be more deserving, but i cant fill up my gas tank with them.

 

i just wanted to apologize for what i said earlier. I was kinda drunk and iono how i ended up in the thread. I'm sorry for what i said, after re-reading it i'm not really sure what point i was trying to get across. But carryon.

 

And this is why we can't have nice things..
No matter what "alternative" fuel we try and replace fossil fuels with, there are always going to be op-posers and supporters. Personally, I think the arguments about Ethanol eating into our food resources (no pun intended) is a load of crap.. Do I believe that it is going to solve our fossil fuel problems? No.. But it's a step in the right direction. Anything we can do to lessen our demand for a dwindling, outdated, environmentally harmful products is a good thing.
Think about how long we've been using gasoline to fuel our motors. Now think about all the advancements we've made to those motors in the past 100 years. How many advancements have we made to the fuel they run on?? Exactly.... We are in desperate need of a safer, renewable source of fuel, period..
It doesn't matter if it's electric, solar, Ethanol or burning belly button lint.. There will always be people who argue it's hurting something else.. In all honesty, I was a little opposed to Ethanol before I understood it too, but after educating myself a little, things cleared up.
So, as I said, Ethanol might not be the savior we are looking for, but it's a step. The more we open ourselves up to alternative fuels, the better chance we have of finding one..

/Rant off

 

Anyone have any good links of the postive side of e85 and going e85. I just made the switch. I love it and i thought i knew all the hightlights and postive

 

E85 doesn't save money, it costs more since due to lower MPG's. I would prefer that our country invested in developing new technology versus temporary fixes to prop up the old.

 

I dont believe the idea is to save money. It's true that market forces will ultimately drive what technologies succeed and which ones don't. That is where our power as consumers comes in to play. In our corporatocracy you vote with your purchases.

What you are talking about is happening. Companies like Tesla, and google are forcing the other automakers to change or risk being left behind. In the context of these forums and its members though, our Evo's are never going to be electric or drive themselves (at least not most of them), so why not choose the lesser of 2 evils? It may be a little more expensive, but we kind of signed up for that by buying sports cars in the first place. I am of course ignoring all the performance gains associated with using E85 and speaking strictly to meta reasoning. Most people here using E85 do so because its basically race fuel that is government subsidized and costs less then regular 87 octane per gallon.

 

North Dakota also has oil, for now.

I only use e85 because it smells good... 10x better than gasoline. *sniff* ahhh

 

Can not wait for E prices to drop back down then.

 

In my Evo I get 5.5 miles/1$ on 93 octane. On E85 I get 7 miles/1$ ( $3.00/gl ). There's your savings. Although they just lowered the ethanol percentage in the city to ~55% instead of ~75% ( $2.91/gl )