I thought it might be a good thread to get people's opinions on how to retune the block of 8* timing that many people have purchased from a tuner.

Please be detailed in you explination.

Let's assume that you have a wideband and a datalogger such as EvoScan.

 

Is there a drivability issue or any other issue associated with this other than its just a flat block?

 

The 8* Block Timing works in most cases, if it's not broke don't fix it, get a few logs in and if your knocking then adjust if not then leave it be.

My pump gas map is mostly "Blocked" and it makes good power 320whp 332tq on 20 psi, but my race gas tune is a whole diffrent story.

 

I am just curious that other tuners (Shiv, and others whose names escape me) stated that timing should not be a block of timing rather a progression one way or another depending where you are in the map. I don't know if this is competitor bashing or sound tuning principles.

In other words is the block a one size fits all solution that is easily applied to many cars or just a different tuning style?

How many of you tune with large blocks of the same timing number?

 

You could take the stock timing maps as your starting point. When making modifications, use what you learn in one area to smooth in your changes into the others.

On my personal map I have the stock JDM map (which is advanced over USDM) advanced by 3 degrees (2 at 6500) at my full load areas. I have some zones from 100-200 actually retarded from stock to prevent lift off detonation, which it does nicely with no loss of full throttle performance.

One day whilst messing with boost control I had massive overboost. Because I had progression in there the knock sum was sensible and the engine coped fine. Maybe it would if the timing was flat, maybe not.

 

Tune to boost according to knock. Part of the "8's" is right. The sides opposite the 8's arent and need more on the lower load cell, and less on the higher load cell. I havent seen an VIII that didnt knock with that map.

 

1 person.

Im horrible I know.

 

8* blocks are a ridiculous and dangerous way to tune. Whether you run 13psi or 33psi you are running 8* and risk damage.

 

Just getting this one outta the way.

 

Although I would normally agree, it doesn't seem to have any negative effects on the Evo. I have a base flash with the block of 8's and I'm also using in ECU+. I have had the block of 8's left intact for 3 years now which includes many many days of racing. I'm not talking drag racing either. I'm talking hours and hours of road course racing and autox'ing.

 

I have 25 open customer files sent to me for remapping. Remapping these blocked timing numbers due to high knocksums has become a daily service at TTP.

Don't pollute the forums with nonsense that it does not matter on the Evo. You may think it does not matter on YOUR Evo. That is your opinion. Posting that 8* at peak torque regardless of load and boost does not affect the Evo is irresponsible and false.

Just because the Evo knock protection is smarter than a tuner's input does not mean it does not matter what you input into the load cells.

 

I'm glad I posted my question.. Although I know my opinion and answer.. Its important to see other people's input.. And why..

 

I tried by a gradual decrease from 180% to about 5 * peak and it caused knock from 220 to peak. Little change after even less timing. I realized I was in over my head and changed it back to steady timing (8's across) to peak and it was normal without knock again.

If I find that 8* peak is infact too much I'll change it to flat 7's

 

Ok. Maybe I should've been more clear and said it has no negative effects on MY Evo..is that better? No high knock counts..nothing. On my last tuning run I saw 22* of timing up top with no timing pulled due to knock at or right after peak torque.
BTW, it's not my "opinion", it's fact..at least it is with my Evo. I have no reason to bs. If I wanted to change it I easily could. There are reasons I haven't though and I'll keep it to myself.

 

Well, without being too obvious one way or another..

The issue with knock, is transitions in timing, when you jump to higher load (or drop to lower) and you have a progressive change in timing, you will get large timing jumps which will result in knock even at lower timing values..

Although I try to always tune with transitions, there are always a plateu region where the timing doesnt tend to change much, what this does is allows the ECU to change load columns in large jumps, without large jumps in timing. It just needs to be accompanied by part throttle tuning to get the low load timing in check also..