First let me defend myself [just kidding] and say that yeah I know WGDC is not about the WGA itself but the solenoid. My worry was simply that I didn't want to take ANY chance that there was enough of a pressure signal making its way to the WGA to allow the flapper to open until boost had gotten close to the target. Hence my desire to actually video it

TB, but what concerned/concerns me relates to your comment about having your WGDC being 100% only in the low RPM because 3k-3.5k is where the turbo spools. True, and that matters if "you" (as in the royal you ) are in the habit of accelerating from below turbo stall speed ... I think we all try to avoid that especially on the track . I want to know that @4500 rpm between the time I go WOT and the time the intake manifold is 90%-ish charged that the flapper hasn't budged

That being said, TB, I do get what your saying and it does make decent sense in a qualitative fashion. So for that, thanks, it was well said.

mrfred, thanks to you too. it makes sense. and yeah I know the flapper has to start opening before target boost to soften the landing and not overshot ... I just like to make it happen as late as possible. One of the benefits of an external WG beyond just preventing boost creep ... not that I ever plan to get an external.

Anyway, thanks guys. That helped explain it a little better. I still want to use a web cam to video the WGA while logging .. use a time stamp to synch the two muwahahaha.

Seriously though, thanks for all the work posting and helping folks out. I promise I'll only try to ask questions that are really really hard to challenge your knowledge. After all an easy questions should be found in a search

Ironically I have an MBC already as I mentjoned and I own an old GReedy EBC as well that I pulled from my talon. Didn't want to install it though as I liked the non-complexity of the MBC. But I'm really itching to try out some ECO controlled boost.

 

never mind ... now I remember why it was a bad idea

 

Completely understandable. The issue here is that the WGDC table is only 2D and can only be adjusted according to RPM. If it were 3D and included a load reference, we could treat it just like the fuel map and achieve the exact control you're looking for. Sadly, we're stuck with capping the WGDC across all load values at a given RPM to effectively control the peak boost levels.

 

Dear TouringBubble, if that is in fact your real name, I must say that I find your lack of faith disturbing. Blaming your boost control short comings on the the mitsubishi engineers for failing to to foresee that we would require a full 3-d boost map ... perhaps even 4-d to include throttle position for TPS progressive boost control, is frankly unacceptable.

Forthwith, I respectfully request that from now on you answer all questions pertaining to the impossible with an enthusiastic and gut wrenching sacrifice to the boost gods ... resistance is futile.

Ok seriously though, I see what you're saying. but isn't that in essence what the BDEL + TBEC are for? Tell the ECU what load you want and it will do its level best to get it within the parameters set by the TBEC table? Giving it the BWGDC values to start with of course but allowing it enough TBEC to actually assure we bleed off enough boost signal to prevent the WGA from opening? and similarly giving it enough TBEC to shut down the BCS to allow the WGA to open and limit boost?

Still in the end it might just come down to what you said in the first place ... even at 60% w/mod-pill the actual pressure built up at the WGA diaphram is the same as 100% w/stock-pill [shrug]. Just so long as the flapper doesn't open.

[sigh] yeah I'm going a bit stir crazy with all his tuning talk and no ability to tune yet. I still don't know when I'm going to find the time but at least it'll give me something to do [did I actually put those two thoughts in the same sentence?]. I should really do a baseline dyno run at Promotion which is like 5 miles from my house and 1 mile from my wifes work. That way I can see how bad I screwed it up.

Hell first thing I need to do is check for boost leaks. I've suspected I had one now for several months with little motivation to dig-in and test it.

 

You are correct. That is exactly what those tables are for. I think that you'll find it difficult to control boost levels accurately with only the BDEL and TBEC and a modified pill if the BWGDC value is left at 100%.

The thing is that the TBEC table just offsets the BWGDC value to meet the requests of the BDEL table, so you end up with the same actual WGDC with either method (assuming that you aim and reach the same load values). Using only the BDEL and TBEC tables to limit the boost will likely yield a sizable spike at spool up and an unstable curve afterward while the TBEC tries to catch up to itself. Setting specific BWGDC values just lets the TBEC table work less.

Again, I'm not an expert. I actually had this all wrong when I first tried it because I made assumptions about which BWGDC table I was actually running on. I was really confused because I made changes to the values and got no result. The problem was that I was editing the wrong table and my boost was consistently running at my BWGDC (on the correct table) +10% (my max TBEC). That value just happened to be almost exactly the value set in my BDEL table, so that didn't help with troubleshooting. Mrfred was able to sort me out and now I have a much better understanding.

 

I just thought I'd post my progress and get some feedback. This thread had been a big help in the tuning process for me. Thanks everyone!

So, what do you guys think?

 

Your load and boost curves look exactly like mine, so looking good! ;-) You seem to get getting away with more timing than I can run though, especially at 7000 rpm. I'm limited to about 10 deg at 7000 rpm, and after that, it knocks in 4th gear runs.

A few questions for my own interest:

1) Is this a 3rd or 4th gear run?
2) Could you post your fuel map?
3) Could you post the log for this run?
4) Do you have a TBE or some such exhaust bits?

 

It's 4th gear, just as the graph states. =)
Yes, I can post my fuel map ...



Yes, I can post the log for this run.

I have a tubular mani, O2 housing, and downpipe.

 

well I got my pill from Naji and I'll be doing some tuning today. wish me luck. Hopefully I get can some smooth load curves like you folks. I'm still waiting for Mrfred to get his JDM MAPs in so for now I'll be eyeballing boost.

 

mrfred, is there any chance we could see one of your charts showing you rowing through the gears? and/or you going WOT at say 4000rpm in 3rd gear as if you were existing a corner? I'm just curious to see the reactions of the WGDC and how it deals with going WOT in an area where the turbo actually likes to spool.

 

I've got some 1-2-3 logs that I recently obtained but haven't processed. I also recently took some logs where I went WOT in 4th/5th gear at 4000-5000 rpm. I'll see if I can process a few of those tonight and post them.

 

Turns out they were 2-4 logs. I didn't nail the throttle hard in 3rd gear, so looks a little funny. Here are the 2 and 4 logs. Seems that spool-up took a bit less than 1 second in either case. Load overshoots a bit, but boost does not.

 

do you happen to have WGDC / BWGDC logged in those runs?

 

How do you log Base(?) WGDC?

 

[sigh] yeah good point ... I just know mrfred has put out charts where HE has added his BWGDC to illustrate when the ecu has deviated from it.