i beleive from using ecutek that the ecu uses a multiplier to send the actual values dependant on the noise from the sensor? And its not that easy to reset without actually driving the car at a certain set of parameters?

this is viewable in the ecutek software

so when your using ecuflash and then evoscan, are the values logged, what the map is actually saying it should be, or your actual timing values the engine is running at? what happens with the multiplier?? is it viewable somehow, or logable with evoscan?

thanks

 

What sensor are you talking about? The knock sensor?

Regarding timing, when you are logging, that is the timing that the engine is running at, not what the maps say it is.

For example, if you are knocking, then the ECU pulls timing, in my experience 1* for every 3 counts. Also, prolonged knock, 6 counts and higher, will bring down the octante number, so interpolation to the low octane maps will begin.

Sorry if I didn't completely understand your question.


Eric

 

Sounds like he might be asking about the timing advance map that adds timing like the Subaru setup. I don't think this map has any advance at high load in stock form, does it?

 

hi, thanks for the replies, what im saying is, and if anyone has used the ecutek software, they will see it, there is a multiplier figure, which is apparently hardware in the ecu, this is all so i have been told, the value sent to the engine from the ecu is altered if the multiplier hears knock this i beleive is before switching ignition maps.

for example, if the value in the map was 14degrees and the multiplier was reading a value of .98 due to a little noise, the actual timing at the engine would be less than the 14 degree, this can be seen in the map tracer in ecutek.

if the multiplier is hearing a lot of noise and say reads a value of .90 (guesstimate) for long periods then it will constantly pull ignition untill you drive the car at a certain set of parameter for a period of time

any idea how ecuflash deals with this if so and is the timing seen in evoscan took from the actual engine, or is this influencing the end results that you see?

thanks in advance

 

try and log the octane level using evoscan or mitsulogger. it might be what you want.

when the ecu hears knock, the octane level goes down, and this dicates the interpolation between high and low octane fuel and timing maps.

 

Which more or less is doing what he is asking yes, but if its like the Subaru multiplier you can adjust it so it makes NO correction. If I understand correctly he is talking about this. If thats what you meant you can set low octane maps to the same as the high octane and it wont budge. Any tune that is making enough constant noise to run on the low octane map isnt worth having to begin with though.

 

^ +50 bajillion!

 

I guess it would depend on the definition. Just like touring said the subaru uses a IAM (ignition advance multiplier) which does the same thing you explained. 16 bit ecu would have a IAM between 0-16 and 32 bit 0-1.

Formula for 32 bit ecu
Timing = Base Timing + Knock Correction Advance + Other timing compensations
Knock Correction Advance = (Timing Advance Maximum * (IAM/1)) + feedback knock correction + fine learning knock correction

you can see if it less than one it will affect overall timing exactly how you mentioned in your post.

I havnt seen this work successfully on our ecu using ecuflash, but there is a topic about it.

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...ecu+add+timing

 

ok, the adv.multiplier seems to drop from a value of 1 and goes down dependant on knock, this will separately retard ignition, it doesnt add ignition also as the subaru one does. Once the multiplier is dropped due to poor condition ie continuous noise, its not so easy to get it back, unlike octane level?? you have to drive the car for say 3-5 mins at a certain set of parameters to restore the multiplier to 1

does this sound like the octane level logged in evoscan? or is it something totally different

 

If you set your maps the same, you will still get timing retard based on knock counts.

 

any updates on this?

 

no the subarus do not use the IAM to advance timing. rough correction brings down the value of the IAM if knock is detected over a period of time. Then fine learning correction advances or retards timing, "fine" tunes the ignition after rough correction was made. feedback knock correction is nothing more than knock retard, so its value will be 0 or negative.

It doesnt sound like octane level in evoscan.

 

aparently in ecutek, you can see the iam adv or retard from its set value, which causes the timing to change adv or ret, this is on subaru.

i have seen it for myself on the evo, where the multiplier will drop down due to det, do a power run with a low multiplier and then see low power, then driving the car under certain conditions on the dyno the multiplier returns to 1 and then do another power run and hey presto back on the money. The multiplier exists, it can be down even when u first connect to the ecu, so its not adjusted with a map, it just seems everyone doesnt know about it? or doesnt care??

 

What you are explaining sounds like the octane number to me.

However, unless we know the memory address or request for what the ECUTek is accessing to show this multiplier, then it's just a guess.

There are two other possibilities that I can think of. One would have to do with the other ignition retard algorith, where timing in decreased 1* for every 3 counts (at least in my experience on DSMs and Evos). Maybe there is a multiplier type value with this routine? I don't think so, though, since these routine seems to return to full ignition timing once the knock decay has expired, which is pretty quick.

The other possiblity could have something to do with the dynamic advance that has been mentioned in one of the other threads where the timing is advanced during cruising conditions above the high octane ignition map and is immediately brought back down to the map value at the first sign of knock. However, this, from what I have read, is only during cruising conditions and you are mentioning seeing it during a WOT pull.

What you are talking about sounds more like the octane number that we are used to, or something altogether different.


Eric

 

To a point I can see it being octane level, but IAM is there just to be the final cure for detonation.

So octane level=trying to cure detonation but its not a permanant fix
IAM=Overall fix to detonation and if knock is not dected the value is retored back to 1 (seems to work that way as you explained)

Are there any more IAM tables. I know in the subaru's they have other thresholds for the IAM. ex if the IAM is below .2 on 32 bit ecu the boost control is disabled.

See in the subarus the IAM would stay that way after its brought back down, unless changed by the tuner/user since fine learning would come in retard/advance timing in certain areas. I dont think we knew about it because like most of us use ecuflash. the defintion for evo's does not let us see that value. I would like to be able to view this or at least datalog.