Yea theres just no bleeder to allow vac to lave the valve.. like when you go WOT theres nothing to close the valve.

 

sas solenoid is 3 port, so when resting is bleading vacuum

 

roger that! one more quick question: does the third port get boost to hold the valve shut from exhaust back pressure, or is there an area ratio difference in the actual sas valve from the diaphram vs the piston that negates the need to see boost!


I have been checking out the SAS tuning guides @ MLR, and I have some so called baseline numbers in my sas tuning maps.

 

3 port does not get booost , is open to air, also not needed because sas valve has one way valve built in ( so only when intake pressure is higher than exhaust it wil let air towards manifold even is you open sas), diapraghm gets actuated betwen -0.2 -0.3 bar, that is why you need to stay below 0.8 bar inlet pressure( to feed vacuum tank) or you will run out of vacuum. early models(gr.a wrc) closed vacum completelly, and you had vacuum in the inlet manifold till throttle plate, and positive before plate(bassically you want to fiil with pressure al intercooler lines+ intercooler, hence no bov!, or recirc(the valve you see on early cars is just a pressure limmiter for launch or if wastegate become inoperative), latter cars used 6 solenoids/map sensors to acatuate sas, and a bypass, because als is not instant, you activate and then after fev seconds it reaches operative state for air injection types. the 6 solenoid/map sensors pack used, initialy had bypasss closed, than it created vacum necessary to open sas and then second solenoid in line sealed the sas on vacuum , and then it would open bypass.....later ones used pressure control sas valves, the oposite to what we have on cars in conjunction with bypass. peugeot/citroen went other route- by usint itbs, so before itb you had pressure, after constant vacuuum to feed air injection actuation, subaru used a similar to sas apoach initialy on s6 cars and then mooved to electrically actuated rocket system + preesure acumulator canister, nowdays ford+ citroen uses sas+throttle opened, mini just throttle opened. with throttlw opened you get instant responce because flow is there at high boost you only alter injection, but you don't get engine braking+ higher temperatures...

solenoid/map sensor pack for sas controll

 

excellent information. I have made my vac tank with check valve and tested it again for leaks. Holds good, but over time does leak down. This is glued pvc using a check valve from a brake booster system! I may switch to an aluminum fabricated unit as soon as some other bits and pieces call for it.

I will look around for a check valve large enough to stop pressure from backfeeding into the intercooler pipe. Is this check valve in the rubber hose that leads from the boost pipe to the sas valve? I think I will try and put it there.

Or maybe that is the apendage on the SAS valve with the 90* fitting. I will be design building this over the course of 24hrs of DAYTONA!

I see some of your posts on MLR, I am taking all the advice I can get please believe!

Gotcha. I have been in the subaru scene for a while, and swapped some stuff there. They have legitimate group n roms available at this point! Im hoping to be comparable in capability.

 

single way valve is in the sas valve body(part with the feedyn pipe to manifold). remember that the system as is on car now(evo 789) is from evo 5, at tht time they only targeted turbine spool/speed- lower turbine pickup speed times- not postive boost!!!1 ,hence small size of the sas banjo, and general operation of the system....this is why you wont gt above 0psi in inlet manifold, before is a totally diffrent sorry

 

As in the intake manifold will not get boost(ideal for road car ??), but the charge pipe may achieve 0psi, or more? JohnBradley had mentioned that he achieved 8psi with USDM rom and throttle kicker, and 14 or so with SAS hardware and USDM rom. So having be able to use the 8858 sas equiped rom, and modified/sas hardware, I must be able to achieve greater than zero in the charge pipe.

 

i also have worked on few subaru's and know alll about the gr.n rom wich only works on jdm 5 plug ecu, but parts of it have beed used in the rom for othe r ecu's. the denso ecu they use had lot's of the stategies buit in fot bypas as they did not have sas at the time(and was for gr.n -easy route) , that rom is quite mild, but let you have positive boost in manifold. regardin the evo, no boost in manifold means easy to drive, and no pushing and also easy on brakes , but you will stiil get some delay as when you go full throttle you will get a small flat spot as pressure drops to fill manifold( this is why some use a bit of throotle opening to stay around 0.7-0.8 bar(-0.2-0.3gauge) so that diffrence betwen uicp pressure and manifold is minimal, before throtlle you can get above 0psi but after proces initiates( you activate and than it will start to buid pressure and get more air injection as turbine pick up speed)... we once measured with a modified compressor housing the shaft speed, and sas gave some 25000more rpm over the standard overun speed, but a sepcial ball bearing turbo standard apearance/stock frame (they existed long before the fp and hks gave almost 20000rpm) so not a lot of difference.... this by using stock hardware and ecu) at idle it has around 9000rpm and with ball bearing around 13000-14000, so you actually have some surge but high turbine shaft speed for the moment you go full throttle and turbo wil jimp from surge line to a efficiency island with sas- no lag implies surge

 

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2266873

that is the most up to date rom. They work on 02-03 ecu.

There is a ton of information in this thread, Im sure that anyone who reads this will get a good idea of what it takes, and hopefully will be able to see a video of my car and the boost guage hooked to say hey it works

 

yes, but subaru developed the ecu to suport that in first place(2 maps, tps boost/gear-closed loop,hot wire maf, sd built in ....+the gr. n ecu with that rom for the teams with tight budget), our's is a bit more dumb-as is the karman maf- reminiscent from the 80' as a replcement for the flap airmeter...
my codriver's subie on sd(vipec ecu-set up by me, also tried the gr.n rom as it has the 5 plug ecu):
without als:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Cvf_...eature=related

with als(mild retard ant throttle-about 0.3 bar manifold):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9UKH...eature=related
gr.a car set by me(this needs max 1500km turbo replacement-has 0.4bar gravel-0.8bar tarmac gauge on als,very hard to drive at low speed)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlmnFAS3Z2s

 

I tried the group_n rom on a JDM STi (5 plug ECU) & I couldn't achieve any boost. I set it up with a 12% throttle kick (around 2800rpm) boost needle moved up a notch but still below zero! The max ALS retard level allowed by the rom is -20, I think more is needed to produce something like .03bar.

EVO/SAS: on MLR people been playing with sas for some time to produce "pops'n'bangs' Several table setting were posted there by various members but all are aimed to produce more & louder bangs, So, it's just sound FX! I often wondered if those tables along with the sas hardware had any performance value then what would be the best settings performance wise?

 

My theory : since some take it off for smoothess, it supports the idea that it has some cause of unsmoothness.

Have any rally cars just used an accumulator?

 

Regarding sti rom, something did not go for you, as when on als, you should get on ign cut and idle under 2000rpm with that much throttle+ you have to disable diverter!!! And modify it as per spec c vent holes... Same problem with pop n bangs on mrl... They keep the diverter, and althrough turbo spins faster it can t overcome the volume needed to saturate both recir valve circuit and inlet tract.... So no poositive boost, on gr. a cars and wrc diverter was used to regulete flow on duty cycle, to reduce amount of turbo spining bakwards on liftof ar high rpm and boost.
Yes some of the manufacurers used accumulators with air injection, with throtle open not needed....
-20 without cut and right fuel amount, and standrd sti turbo at 12 throttle you sould see at least 0.3-0.4 depending in avcs setup, same for
Mivec.... It is a trick here too

 

'Spec c vent holes' is that the same as a 'TGV delete'? http://www.grimmspeed.com/catalog/im...tock_600_1.jpg
Because I have that on the STi I worked on, but I'm not sure how to disable the diverter!?
As an autocross racer, I'm desperate to operate proper ALS on a stock ECU, I'd appreciate any help with that laying out all the steps required with a list of hardware needed & software setup.

 

Thats what were working on.. lol