I think the manual states how SAS is suppose to work & the reality is that 0 air is been injected under any condition as per the the attached rom table, that's why, people who had removed SAS never felt any performance penalty! Off course, now we can enable sas since those tables are defined, which brings me to one of my unanswered questions, if SAS is meant to improve turbo response then what would be the best SAS tables settings for the best result in terms turbo response?

 

hrmm.. this type of anti lag still needs negative timing.

 

I don't think that SAS air is meant to ignite with fuel, it's meant to physically help the turbine revolve, but I'm not 100% sure, you must've done more research about sas. That why I don't think it would benefit from retard or extra fuel. While traditional anti lag requires more exhaust gases, thus, retard & extra fuel...etc
Jason realized that more retard than -20 is needed but it's the same story again, I seem the only one interested in ALS at that forum & no one else is requesting it :{

Maikumaru: I've tuned dozens of cars with anti lag, about every auto x racer that I know use it, it's not as half destructive as people tend to think.

 

On the contraire foxbat: I think the SAS air is quite intended to ignite, its a way to move a mass air flow by the engine with out a solid kick, while maintaining reasonable amount of engine braking. If I had a VIPEC/GEMS/AUTRONIC I would be more than willing to see if my improved pipework could support the airflow needed to ignite.

Ive reread and read again the posts by claudiumxg, and my short winded post on MLR, and it seems that gr-a cars used a throttle kick ontop of the system. My thought process is that the kick, will act like a vent for a place for the compressed air in front of the throttle plate to bleed to, because otherwise the amount of air flow infront of the throttle plate could not fit thru the sas system alone creating surge at a lower shaft speed of the turbo. So by bleeding air thru the motor, how much to effect engine braking, and decel is quite unknown. This differential pressure, which is probably quite small fromt the UICP to the IM is enough to stop the dead spot that claudium stated appeared on a SAS only car.

This is what I can tell with what little information has been made explicit.

bottom line is : SAS alone can be effective however turbo surging can occur at low shaft speed because theres literally no demand. SAS and throttle kicker obviously works, it has been cited by more than one person on more than one occasion as this is how the step 2 group a car or similar functioned.

Second bottom line. MY SAS system is clearly limited in flow. At this point its the horizontal holes that go from the exhaust manifold runners to one another.

 

If that air is meant to ignite then how is it suppose to get the fuel required? Retard won't be enough (I think) we might still need an extra fuel table (similar to launch control tables).

Group A, could've used aftermarket ECUs thus, they had a throttle kick. Even group N cars where allowed to use aftermarket ECUs. Many of those cars used GEMS, late 90s early 00s.

But still you should test your setup with a throttle kick, it's very easy to set, I'd usually set it at around 2500-3500 on standalones & Jason's group-n

 

I will as soon as i get this arduino to work the way I want. I need to come up with a system that uses a boost reservoir to actuate my tial-SAS valve. Vacuum could be scarce. I have a subaru 2.5 bar map sensor that I can wire in pre throttle body to measure pressure just no
where to mount it yet. Right now i do not have a check valve in my system which means its coming open at part throttle and I am getting some reversion.

I pretty much have it made just need to make the arduino work.. lol

I played with the throttle kick today after work. I would need to disable the ISCV for this method because it hunts and causes some inconsistencies.

Aside from jacking the throttle, I know our standard ISCV can cause the car to idle at 3000 when its at 100%

 

Foxbat, how much boost have you seen with jason's rom during anti-lag? he was saying 4-5 with a large kick.

Im kinda thinkin that a gems/vipec/link would be my best bet. I really want anti-lag, let a lone need it with the larger cams.

 

Yes, Jason's 4-5 at 12% kick & BOV removed/blanked. Why don't you inquire about 2nd gen AEM EMS? It suppose to have knock control which most of the other standalones lack. Link G4 could be the easiest for you to configure, since its software is kind of similar to ECUflash.

You could measure pressure using a simple/cheap boost gauge.

 

I have two boost gauges, im just fresh out of real estate to plumb them from.. aem v2 has no anti lag. its been known to be a flop with no support from AEM on that one.

 

Are u sure about AEM, they specifically mention 'overrun anti lag' under features! http://www.aemelectronics.com/series...-for-evo-9-531

As much as I like anti lag, I hate not having knock control!

 

yup its noted on several occasions that the features do not work as advertised.

 

Hey foxbat, when you set up a normal throttle kick ALS do you use degrees absolute? I was reading that some people set it up absolute -55 which means from the normal ign timing.

i simlified my wiring and I might even be able to accomplish it tomorrow.

basically Im gonna take my map switch and power it from the ECU pin that normally powers the SAS solenoid. Then that will tie into the alt map switch. Thereby making alt maps on when SAS is active in the ECU. This will allow me to have lots of negative timing in my alt maps and not use it during normal driving. presto add mucho fuel too. Then in my alt map bwgdc I will enable a solenoid to see 100% wgdc above set rpm. this solenoid uses boost only to one port, and the other is a source on the intake manifold which sees vacuum. when the alt bwgdc map is active vacuum will prevail

 

First off great to see everyone so involved and brain storming on the topic!
2nd Damn i've been WAY to slow making something happen for my ALS. I'll see how much i can get done next week though (only 4 days with the car and i have a few other things to show some love before the ALS...)

 

good to have you back.

curious to know how you set up your als mildly with your aem? the rally als doesnt work correct> or are you on v1>?

I would need an EE to help me come up with a way to create an ignition cut.. i think cut will definitely be necessary to get mixture to fill up the exhaust pipe in good order.

would be nice to know the conditions which turn off the sas routine in the factory ecu

 

Sounds like a good plan, what map switch are you using ICS or ACD? No wrong way in setting up the throttle kick, you can jack the butterfly open to a certain angle % (viewed through data logging software) or aim for a certain rpm range, a higher kick leads to more aggressive ALS. Typically I set it to 2500-3000rpm while idle, once ALS is switched on, RPM would naturally get even higher.