SST Tables - Development thread
Evolved Member
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,447
Likes: 14
From: Australia
Because you have some busted XML in there.
One thing I spotted...
"Speed Limiter #3" doesn't have the proper </table>" after it. That </table> bit has been stuck right before the "SST Upshift - Lower Bound Fueling" bit.
Move line 471 to line 400 and it might work. But there may be other issues too.
Rich
One thing I spotted...
"Speed Limiter #3" doesn't have the proper </table>" after it. That </table> bit has been stuck right before the "SST Upshift - Lower Bound Fueling" bit.
Move line 471 to line 400 and it might work. But there may be other issues too.
Rich
Evolving Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 123
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From: Moscow, Russia
I can mail you 53050012 ROM, but I am not assured that it completely the original as I have received it by mail instead of have merged from the car. I too with pleasure would look at 100% original 53050012 ROM.
Last edited by AIK; Mar 1, 2012 at 10:16 PM.
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 14,092
Likes: 1,090
From: Mid-Hudson, NY
no errors... I just cant get any of the data to appear... for example on the first page their is a screen shot of a tables.. and I cannot get it to list the data on my computer... even though I dragged and dropped..
Evolving Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 123
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From: Moscow, Russia
Pls mail me 53050012 in stock to aik.xpower@gmail.com.Thanks.
Evolved Member
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,447
Likes: 14
From: Australia
Hi AIK.
53050012 got uploaded yesterday to Bryan's store of ROMs (mentioned in passing earlier)...
http://norcalmotorsports.org/users/b...08_EDM_SST.hex
Rich
53050012 got uploaded yesterday to Bryan's store of ROMs (mentioned in passing earlier)...
http://norcalmotorsports.org/users/b...08_EDM_SST.hex
Rich
Evolving Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
From: Moscow, Russia
Rich thanks you.
Friends, be careful - Lean spool is activated in stock 53050012 ! Simple copying of tables from 009 to 012 can lead to problems. To it I thought that my 53050012 file not the original.
Friends, be careful - Lean spool is activated in stock 53050012 ! Simple copying of tables from 009 to 012 can lead to problems. To it I thought that my 53050012 file not the original.
Evolving Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
From: Moscow, Russia
Trying to move over a prior convohttps://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...l#post10022393
sstevojr:That is awesome power for an SST, losing 15% FTW!
razorlab:??? Are you saying an SST loses 15% over a GSR? If so, this is not correct.
s: Does the SST not absorb 15% of the hp? As in the GSR is 17% drivetrain loss, and the SST is 19.5% drivetrain loss?
r:Where did you get those #'s?
s:The GSR number is based on the layout of the entire drivetrain=17-18% drivetrain loss (where as, for example, Scooby has a 21-22% drivetrain loss).
As for the 19.5....FMA
No but seriously, I just said ok 17x1.15=19.55. I can't seem to find where I was reading on how the SST absorbs some of the HP. IIRC the basic premise was that Auto trans in general eat 17% by themselves, but the SST was more efficient w/ less drivetrain loss (relative to the standard Auto). Basically a standard manual tranny is ~10%, a standard auto tranny is 17%, and the SST was ~12% (these are JUST the transmissions themselves, not including engine layout, shafts, etc).
What info have you found? Is it supposed to be less?
Just to be clear, I didn't mean 15% extra drivetrain loss, I meant 15% more of the existing drivetrain loss.....or something.....
r:So why would a automated manual transmission have higher drivetrain loss then a manual transmission? Possibly more moving parts?
I've basically seen relatively the same power, mod for mod, between 5spd and 6spd SST.
murlo:Assuming you tune it correctly though, right
s:Exactly, especially those giant torque converters. Perhaps modern technology has managed to narrow this divide (?), but yeah the need to move more/heavier components (and possibly gearing?).
I'm inclined to agree w/ murlo on that one. I think you happen to know the right 'spell' that lets the maximum amount of usable torque go to the wheels
I suppose the best way to test this out is get two new Evo's and dyno them stock. The SST 'should' have a bit lower hp numbers than the GSR, prior to any modifications. BUT, we more than make up for that with transient boost management
r:The SST clutches are smaller then the 5spd. There are more of course. It would be interesting to weigh the two.
The SST clutches do spin around in liquid though. Not sure if that makes a difference when clamped though.
In all honesty I do not know enough about transmissions to say one way or the other. I do know what I have seen power wise on various Evos though.
The SST's have always baselined lower, especially the 2008's. I contribute this more to the OEM mapping though, as after tuning, they line up more.
s:Hmmmm, now that's an interesting premise. I wonder what the results would be if the same maps were created (boost, MIVEC,timing, and fuel) and dynoed back to back (no tweaking of the clutch tables, just stock/tuned cars)?
It's seem like custom tuning certainly turns the tables around for automated manuals (as opposed to a tuned automatic vs a tuned manual, a'la Subie 4EAT vs 5MT) when compared to stock. Nissan and Porsche seem to have shown us the potential that lies in out beloved SST's. I see some really great things in our future with your release of all the tables recently. Rich and I have been emailing, and he said something to me that struck a cord:
Quote:
"Also... have you been OCD smoothing that "SST DISengagement Map"? I've put it back to exactly "Balance #13" style, as that's what I've tested as a table set. You should consider the possibility that an obviously lumpy map may be built like that deliberately by Mitsu. "
And that made me think back to the MAP tables, also intentionally lumpy. I'm thinking they set-up all these torque/load/airflow tables based on stock restrictions, as the "lumps" in the one table oddly mirror the "lumps" in the other tables.
sstevojr:That is awesome power for an SST, losing 15% FTW!
razorlab:??? Are you saying an SST loses 15% over a GSR? If so, this is not correct.
s: Does the SST not absorb 15% of the hp? As in the GSR is 17% drivetrain loss, and the SST is 19.5% drivetrain loss?
r:Where did you get those #'s?
s:The GSR number is based on the layout of the entire drivetrain=17-18% drivetrain loss (where as, for example, Scooby has a 21-22% drivetrain loss).
As for the 19.5....FMA
No but seriously, I just said ok 17x1.15=19.55. I can't seem to find where I was reading on how the SST absorbs some of the HP. IIRC the basic premise was that Auto trans in general eat 17% by themselves, but the SST was more efficient w/ less drivetrain loss (relative to the standard Auto). Basically a standard manual tranny is ~10%, a standard auto tranny is 17%, and the SST was ~12% (these are JUST the transmissions themselves, not including engine layout, shafts, etc).
What info have you found? Is it supposed to be less?
Just to be clear, I didn't mean 15% extra drivetrain loss, I meant 15% more of the existing drivetrain loss.....or something.....
r:So why would a automated manual transmission have higher drivetrain loss then a manual transmission? Possibly more moving parts?
I've basically seen relatively the same power, mod for mod, between 5spd and 6spd SST.
murlo:Assuming you tune it correctly though, right
s:Exactly, especially those giant torque converters. Perhaps modern technology has managed to narrow this divide (?), but yeah the need to move more/heavier components (and possibly gearing?).
I'm inclined to agree w/ murlo on that one. I think you happen to know the right 'spell' that lets the maximum amount of usable torque go to the wheels
I suppose the best way to test this out is get two new Evo's and dyno them stock. The SST 'should' have a bit lower hp numbers than the GSR, prior to any modifications. BUT, we more than make up for that with transient boost management
r:The SST clutches are smaller then the 5spd. There are more of course. It would be interesting to weigh the two.
The SST clutches do spin around in liquid though. Not sure if that makes a difference when clamped though.
In all honesty I do not know enough about transmissions to say one way or the other. I do know what I have seen power wise on various Evos though.
The SST's have always baselined lower, especially the 2008's. I contribute this more to the OEM mapping though, as after tuning, they line up more.
s:Hmmmm, now that's an interesting premise. I wonder what the results would be if the same maps were created (boost, MIVEC,timing, and fuel) and dynoed back to back (no tweaking of the clutch tables, just stock/tuned cars)?
It's seem like custom tuning certainly turns the tables around for automated manuals (as opposed to a tuned automatic vs a tuned manual, a'la Subie 4EAT vs 5MT) when compared to stock. Nissan and Porsche seem to have shown us the potential that lies in out beloved SST's. I see some really great things in our future with your release of all the tables recently. Rich and I have been emailing, and he said something to me that struck a cord:
Quote:
"Also... have you been OCD smoothing that "SST DISengagement Map"? I've put it back to exactly "Balance #13" style, as that's what I've tested as a table set. You should consider the possibility that an obviously lumpy map may be built like that deliberately by Mitsu. "
And that made me think back to the MAP tables, also intentionally lumpy. I'm thinking they set-up all these torque/load/airflow tables based on stock restrictions, as the "lumps" in the one table oddly mirror the "lumps" in the other tables.
Last edited by sstevojr; Mar 8, 2012 at 04:32 PM.
Evolved Member
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,447
Likes: 14
From: Australia
The bit at the end, about the lumpy stock "SST DISengagement" map...
As of 2011, Mitsu ended up ditching that map completely:
"What's this c**p table, man? Looks like my mother-in-law's tofu. It hurts my eyes - get rid of it!"
"The tofu?"
"The map, you fool! And make sure the code's pretty, like my Target Idle stuff."
"err...."
Rich
As of 2011, Mitsu ended up ditching that map completely:
"What's this c**p table, man? Looks like my mother-in-law's tofu. It hurts my eyes - get rid of it!"
"The tofu?"
"The map, you fool! And make sure the code's pretty, like my Target Idle stuff."
"err...."
Rich