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Hey all im just starting a thread to help document my process/progress on getting my injectors zeroed out. My process is not different compared to everything else on evom, but posting the information will help me remember what is working or not on my road to success. I hope this may even help some others in need of understanding. Thanks to all who stop by or have anything to contribute to my posts. Help is always appreciated.
OK nitty gritty.. I know the basis of what im doing as far as tuning and dialing in injectors but the particular injector i am dealing with is the FIC2150. I know there are many threads and posts about this injector but like i said i am doing this mainly to document my process. I actually feel that the information out there about this injector is above and beyond compared to othe injectors out there which is awesome! The only downside is that this injector even with all of the information can be stubborn.
This may or not matter but the injectors have less then 500miles on them and i had them cleaned and flowed by FIC. My data sheet states all injectors are within 0.9% of eachother and all flowed an average of 2230cc/min.
This more then expected flow rate might be changing my results slightly. The engine is a slightly larger 2.1l which can be viewed in my ultimate 2.1 build thread. Speed density with Tephrav7 and a GM iat sensor.
The car actually runs, idles, and drives very well,,, no WOT tuning as of yet, waiting for proper engine break in before i start those but everywhere else the car drives very well. My goal is to try and get these injectors dialed in as best as possible. I know that with such a large injector it may not be accomplished but i have high hopes.
As of right now the car is running on 93 pump gas. Base fuel pressure is 45psi right now which i may lower back to 43.5 or even lower depending on results. I contacted the guys directly at FIC for battery voltage latency table for these injectors at 45psi base and this is what i am using currently.
Will post log information on trims and adjustments when i get to it.
So i have tried to follow the FIC Tuning notes thread to get these injectors to work with the Injector pulse width linierization tables posted and i COULD NOT get this to work. Possibly because the info was posted in relation to testing while on e85 but i have tried a couple times and it does not work or i am doing something wrong. Anyone is welcome to give me advice on this if they wish lol. As for now the injector pulse linierization table is unchanged from stock...
Please feel free to chyme in with any questions, comments, or advice. Thanks MORE TO COME...
Not sure what you rom you are using but you must add the linearation patch to your rom. It will help immensely as you can tweak the pulse width to 1.0X or w/e you desire. I was able to get my car to drive and idle pretty well on pump gas but definitely better on E85 since you don't have to scale the injectors as much.
Not sure what you rom you are using but you must add the linearation patch to your rom. It will help immensely as you can tweak the pulse width to 1.0X or w/e you desire. I was able to get my car to drive and idle pretty well on pump gas but definitely better on E85 since you don't have to scale the injectors as much.
hey thanks for chiming in, rom is usdm 0015 but with tephrav7 and SD so it’s probably 1715 is what I believe it is.
I have the table patched into my rom as well as the minimum ipw table patch. With using the table numbers provided in the tuning notes thread as well as the latency values and min ipw values the car would not start at all. I may have something else messed up but went back to what I was using because the car is running decent there. If you have any other thoughts or suggestions on this let me know! Thanks.
So made some tweaks over lunch. Flashed in new scaling values and touched the latency values a little. Here’s what the car is doing this far...
First start cold and idle for 15 minutes LTFT low is 1.367xxxx.
LTFT low after 20 minutes is 0.1953xxx then had to leave to head to work.
Unfortunately my drive to work is only about 10 minutes so I don’t get an accurate settling of LTFT mid but after cruising for that amount of time steady throttle my LTFT mid is -0.1953 and the LTFT low is now 1.367xxx
Letting the car idle again for another 20 minutes my LTFT low is now -3.203 and LTFT mid is -0.1953.
I’m not going to make any current changes but will monitor LTFT mid further and see where the next adjustment may be. So far I think we are within accepted range and doing well so far. Afr sweep is 14.3-14.9 same for cruising.
So made some more changes and ended up better then I expected. For now anyways. Continued driving and logging needed but I am very happy thus far.
I was able to take a longer drive this morning to get my cruising fuel trims to settle a bit. Driving conditions are highway cruising at 60mph just over 2500rpms in 5th gear. Steady throttle and speed. Logging the entire time, I drove steady for about 15 minutes. Quick turn around on the off ramp and then back on the other direction for another 15 minute cruise with the same steady driving conditions.
When I got to work the cruise trims have settled to -0.78125. This number may change with driving more but I feel the drive was long and steady enough for a good settling condition.
I left the car running at idle for 30 minutes to fully let the idle trims settle. The idle trims have settled at 0.9765625.
AFR sweep on my cheap ProSport gauge is reading pretty steady 14.3-14.9 with the occasional 13.8 low and 15.1 high before recovering. Cruising gauge readings are pretty steady 14.3-14.9.
I kind of find it odd that the car is running soo well with the scaling and latency values because they are off compared to all other threads I have seen about getting these injectors to work well. I’ll post pictures. What works well for one car is not the same for others so this may be that occasion.
Snapshot showing my settled LTFT for low and mid. Injector scaling is higher then I have seen. 2089. I like this though because it more matches what the injector actually is. These are tweaked values that are taken from what the guys at FIC have me for these injectors. This is what my minimum ipw is set to. I don’t even know if this is something that is working in my car or not. Iv never adjusted this value. This is the value that was previously in the tune. The lowest ipw my logger is seeing is 1.024ms so idk. Maybe someone can chyme in on this. .
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Min IPW is just that, the minimum IPW the ECU will allow the injector to run. You typically just set it to what the manufacturer recommends, which in this case is 0.16ms. Since you don't see lower than 1.024 ms whether you use 0.16ms or 0.032ms will make no difference. According to FIC's 2150cc injector data for the EVO X, the injector doesn't go non linear until below 0.975ms based on 43.5psi base fuel pressure. I would confirm with FIC this is also the case for your injectors, but if so there is likely no benefit to running the non linear compensation table since you don't see 0.975ms. With that said, it's super easy to populate that table so it won't hurt anything and probably good piece of mind. I run FIC 1650 and populated the non linear compensation table, but it was completely unnecessary.
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Min IPW is just that, the minimum IPW the ECU will allow the injector to run. You typically just set it to what the manufacturer recommends, which in this case is 0.16ms. Since you don't see lower than 1.024 ms whether you use 0.16ms or 0.032ms will make no difference. According to FIC's 2150cc injector data for the EVO X, the injector doesn't go non linear until below 0.975ms based on 43.5psi base fuel pressure. I would confirm with FIC this is also the case for your injectors, but if so there is likely no benefit to running the non linear compensation table since you don't see 0.975ms. With that said, it's super easy to populate that table so it won't hurt anything and probably good piece of mind. I run FIC 1650 and populated the non linear compensation table, but it was completely unnecessary.
Hey thanks for the input. I had a feeling that the linear comp table wasn’t doing much in my case because if it was I’d be able to see the changes it is making. As far as populating the table I’m not sure how to do that. I would like the piece of mind but like you said if it’s not doing much so I really need to. I actually just did some verification testing that I will post up after this. Any further input is always appreciated. Thanks
So after work today I decided to verify that my fuel trims are actually doing what i had posted previously.
So to do this I reset my trims again and went for another test drive. Same driving conditions as before. Highway speed steady at 60mph just over 2500rpms for about 20minutes this time,,, I went a bit further then the last test drive just to confirm the fuel trims have settled, quick turn around on the off ramp then back on and the same further drive back home.
LTFT mid did move around before I got on the highway but then found a settling place at 0.9765625.
Without shutting the car off I let the car idle for about 20 minutes in my driveway. LTFT low had settled at -0.5859375. I snapped another picture to post for any who need to see.
So I have separate verified tests that are showing I have these injectors dialed in as close to zero as I believe I can get them. I am super happy with the results and now consider these injectors ZEROE’D!! Snapshot after second longer road test and idle test to show settled LTFT for low and mid.
Hey thanks for the input. I had a feeling that the linear comp table wasn’t doing much in my case because if it was I’d be able to see the changes it is making. As far as populating the table I’m not sure how to do that. I would like the piece of mind but like you said if it’s not doing much so I really need to. I actually just did some verification testing that I will post up after this. Any further input is always appreciated. Thanks
You need to perform a search based on the name of this table and you will find your answers. mrfred posted about this, provided the code as well as the values for those injectors.
You need to perform a search based on the name of this table and you will find your answers. mrfred posted about this, provided the code as well as the values for those injectors.
Hey thanks for the input but I’m pretty thorough with searching. I have the patch and correct code and numbers. His tables and info are based on e85 which either does or does not make a difference to my application. Iv tried the tables and the values he had posted. Did not work in my application. With that said I’m not even sure if I could get these injectors to run better then what I already have. All trims are as close to 0 as I can get so I don’t think the table
is needed. Thanks for the input though, I may attempt playing with the tables again at another time but as for now injectors are dialed in better then most others Iv seen posted.
Hey thanks for the input but I’m pretty thorough with searching. I have the patch and correct code and numbers. His tables and info are based on e85 which either does or does not make a difference to my application. Iv tried the tables and the values he had posted. Did not work in my application. With that said I’m not even sure if I could get these injectors to run better then what I already have. All trims are as close to 0 as I can get so I don’t think the table
is needed. Thanks for the input though, I may attempt playing with the tables again at another time but as for now injectors are dialed in better then most others Iv seen posted.
The "Injector Flow Linearization PW Adder" values are injector & base fuel pressure specific, which means they have nothing to do with the type of fuel being used. I'm not sure the basis for your saying they "did not work in my application" when you already stated you do not operate the injectors below 1.024ms and the non-linear compensation doesn't start until 0.975ms. As mentioned, based on the numbers you provided your populating the tables was purely for fun or piece of mind.
The problem with 2150cc injectors when trying to idle and cruise on pump gas is that for a small change in IPW, you have a large change in fueling. So a change of 0.1ms of IPW on a 2150cc injector is three times as much fuel being added vs a 0.1ms change of IPW on a 700cc injector. Anything over about 1000cc to 1300cc is going to have a negative effect on idle and cruise stability due to the lack of resolution for fine fuel control.
In the GTR community when running 1600+hp, many folks run 1000cc to 1300cc primaries and then 1600cc or larger secondary injectors so they maintain good off boost driveability with a smaller injector. The secondary injectors are powered by an aftermarket injector driver that ties into the factort ECU for control. You can do the same thing on the EVO using some of the secondary injector controllers such as the ones from Split Second.
The "Injector Flow Linearization PW Adder" values are injector & base fuel pressure specific, which means they have nothing to do with the type of fuel being used. I'm not sure the basis for your saying they "did not work in my application" when you already stated you do not operate the injectors below 1.024ms and the non-linear compensation doesn't start until 0.975ms. As mentioned, based on the numbers you provided your populating the tables was purely for fun or piece of mind.
The problem with 2150cc injectors when trying to idle and cruise on pump gas is that for a small change in IPW, you have a large change in fueling. So a change of 0.1ms of IPW on a 2150cc injector is three times as much fuel being added vs a 0.1ms change of IPW on a 700cc injector. Anything over about 1000cc to 1300cc is going to have a negative effect on idle and cruise stability due to the lack of resolution for fine fuel control.
In the GTR community when running 1600+hp, many folks run 1000cc to 1300cc primaries and then 1600cc or larger secondary injectors so they maintain good off boost driveability with a smaller injector. The secondary injectors are powered by an aftermarket injector driver that ties into the factort ECU for control. You can do the same thing on the EVO using some of the secondary injector controllers such as the ones from Split Second.
You def sound more familiar with the linearization table then I am. When I say I tried the table multiple time I mean I plugged in all the numbers that were posted in the fic 2150 tuning notes that mrfred had posted. Flashed car ad it would not even start or even try to start. Just cranked. So something is off somewhere. I’d love to get the table working for better idle and cruise but have not had success. I’m not real familiar with the table and where to adjust it so the car runs as should. Would I be able to work from what I have now? Only asking because my trims and driveability are awesome right now. I’ll read over the threads again see if I missed something somewhere. I guess I’m unsure of how to go about populating the table. Do I take my 1.024 ipw and add values based on that or what? I’m not understanding what data needs looked at to come up with figures that work. If that makes sense.
You def sound more familiar with the linearization table then I am. When I say I tried the table multiple time I mean I plugged in all the numbers that were posted in the fic 2150 tuning notes that mrfred had posted. Flashed car ad it would not even start or even try to start. Just cranked. So something is off somewhere. I’d love to get the table working for better idle and cruise but have not had success. I’m not real familiar with the table and where to adjust it so the car runs as should. Would I be able to work from what I have now? Only asking because my trims and driveability are awesome right now. I’ll read over the threads again see if I missed something somewhere. I guess I’m unsure of how to go about populating the table. Do I take my 1.024 ipw and add values based on that or what? I’m not understanding what data needs looked at to come up with figures that work. If that makes sense.
You've either incorrectly added the code to the XML file or you incorrectly populated the table. The left hand column is the Requested PW(ms) and those values should already be populated based on the code you added to the XML file so you don't need to touch them. The right hand column is the amount of IPW(ms) you are adding for a given Requested PW(ms), which is specific to the injectors you are running. Try populating every value in the right hand column with Zero's and see if the car starts.
You've either incorrectly added the code to the XML file or you incorrectly populated the table. The left hand column is the Requested PW(ms) and those values should already be populated based on the code you added to the XML file so you don't need to touch them. The right hand column is the amount of IPW(ms) you are adding for a given Requested PW(ms), which is specific to the injectors you are running. Try populating every value in the right hand column with Zero's and see if the car starts.
Hey thanks for the info. I actually was able to get it working. I went back through the reading and made sure everything was right which it was. Mistake by my part was I did not make sure the minimum ipw stuff was setup and working correctly. As soon as I changed that to working the car starts idles and drives well. Small tweaking now with injector scaling and trims are getting close to zero again 👍🏻
