Creamo3

iTrader: (48)

What's the largest injector currently being run on stock ecu right now? I have seen the FIC 1450's being run w/o issue on E85 and pump gas. Just wondering if anyone has attempted to run anything larger than that; would most likely be an E85 setup but I'm interested none the less. I want to make sure this next go round that I buy enough injector for my setup and that I'm able to get it running smoothly.

- Post up the injector size you are running & brand.

- If you care to share your global scaling & latencies for fuel type that might help as well.

fostytou

iTrader: (15)

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ec...injectors.html

Creamo3

iTrader: (48)

I'm fully aware of that thread, hence the 1150's I'm currently running. It still doesn't answer the question of the largest being run out there. I have heard of 1600's, but nothing confirmed which is why I posted.

l2r99gst

iTrader: (2)

creamo, what injectors do you have? You just said 1150's, but your signature states 1450s.

The only reason I am asking is because I am about to buy a pump and injectors to get ready for the E-85 switch. Since you're in Chicago, if you have spare injectors, I may want to buy them, depending on size and brand...I'm still making my mind up on that.

Eric

Creamo3

iTrader: (48)

I currently have FIC 1150cc injectors installed; I was planning on going w/ FIC Bluemax 1450's for my build that is underway, but might go larger if I can get them to run properly on stock ecu. I will be selling the 1150cc injectors once I get the turbo installed, which is why I'm looking to see how big I can go before I make my purchase.

Wicked E

iTrader: (26)

Don't plan on using pump gas on that large of an injector. E85 you can get away with 1600's but good luck getting those to run on 91/93 octane fuel.

-E

Creamo3

iTrader: (48)

Strictly E70/E85 for me; I might give the Blue Max 1550's a shot.

Wicked E

iTrader: (26)

JohnBradley

iTrader: (30)

1450s are cake

I have done 1600s and Ford Motorsport derived 160#/hr (1680s) on a stock ECU. The latter work only on E85 and seemed to prefer E98. I think the new generation of Bluemax's might allow for more and more fuel, provided the pump is there, since the atomise better than the old firehose style 1600s.

Creamo3

iTrader: (48)

I have been using the online fuel injector calculators to try and determine the appropriate size http://www.rceng.com/technical.aspx#...ted_Injectors; the only issue is that they are calculating based on pump gas and crankshaft horsepower. I have been multiplying their suggested injector size by 1.3 to give me an estimate of the proper injector size to get for E85. I am also multiplying my desired whp by 1.15 to get an estimate of crank horsepower. I may wind up bumping up my base fuel pressure from 38psi to 43-45psi to give me a little more headroom as well.

I came up w/ the following assume Dynojet whp, 38psi base pressure w/ 90% IDC, .60 BSFC:
650whp = 748bhp = 1402cc (pumpgas) = 1822cc (E85)
700whp = 805bhp = 1509cc (pumpgas) = 1961cc (E85)

If I bump up to 45psi base pressure I get:
650whp = 748bhp = 1288cc (pumpgas) = 1674cc (E85)
700whp = 805bhp = 1386cc (pumpgas) = 1801cc (E85)

Are these online calculators accurate? I'm going w/ a BR double pumper, Perrin Fuel Rail, stock fuel lines, and possibly an adjustable FPR, just wondering what people have seen in terms of max horsepower potential out of said injector size on E85.

l2r99gst

iTrader: (2)

No need to use online estimation calculators (based on HP), when you can calculate directly how much injector you will need. All you need to know are 2 things:

1. Your max MASS airflow
2. Your AFR

mrfred made a nice mod to log your mass airflow and it is included in tephra mod ROMS v6 and above I believe. I ported that mod to 96940011. Or, look at the compressor map of the turbo you plan on running and look at the max airflow that turbo can support to get an idea.

From there, it's simple math. For example, I did these calculations to see what injectors and fuel pump I would need for a maxed out FP Red on E-85 (based on the 56lb/min wheel that FP says it has) for an AFR of .783 lambda:

So, you can see that > 1079 cc/min injectors are needed to support a max airflow of 56 lb/min on E-85 at 100% duty cycle and 11.5:1 gasoline calibrated AFR (.783 lambda).

Obviously, as your intended AFR gets leaner, your injector size will get smaller and vice versa. For example, these calcs were done at .783 lambda (or 11.5:1 gasoline calibrated AFR). If you were going to run 11:1, then the injectors would need to be bigger (>1130 cc/min)...12:1, and they would need to be smaller (>1035 cc/min).


Eric

Creamo3

iTrader: (48)

Thanks Eric!!

Using the above formulas for a ~70lb/min HTA3582R running 12.0:1 AFR got me 1289cc injectors at 100% IDC for E85. I calculated 309L/hr for fueling and think I'll be fine using 1450cc injectors w/ dual Walbro 255's and should have me right around 88-90% IDC. I might still bump up base pressure to 43psi if I'm close to the ceiling, since that is what most of these injectors are flowed tested at.

JohnBradley

iTrader: (30)

Base pressure is already 43psi. I would go a little higher in your calculations and see what you get. I have found E85 seems to be closer to .65 BFSC though.

Creamo3

iTrader: (48)

Hmm, I could swear I remember Buschur stating the stock FPR keeps pressure at 38psi. I'll have to look into that.

Edit: After some searching it appears w/ the vacuum hose connected it will lower fuel pressure from ~43 to 38.

Jack_of_Trades

iTrader: (17)

Yeah, base fuel pressure is tested with the vacuum hose disconnected. 43psi is stock base pressure, increasing 1psi of fuel pressure for every psi of boost at a 1:1 ratio.