From the outside looking in, and having nothing to do with either party, here's my take. The OP comes on here and bags Al's tune in writing, then when he is offered free dyno time to prove his point, he starts back peddling fast. I think Al and George make a good argument as to why the numbers are meaningless. If you're going to put **** in writing, at least be ready to back it up. WTF?

 

What can I tell you my man

I dont waste my time to try and twist my customer's minds to show how some other tuner's work sucks

You don't see me making posts here about all the times I was able to make more power than tuner "X" or "Y" what ever

Sadly, I am draged on here to DEFEND my work as the implication from the OP's thread is that I did something wrong

I am not trying to attack DG but I am not going to sit by while people make up lies and BS about my hard work. I take pride in my work and I take pride in a job well done. It really pisses me off when I have a car that is here last week and someone tries to lie and say it lost a mystey 50 whp all of a sudden.

I have no axe to grind against DG and in fact I met and liked him and his whole family when they came here to me to get his Evo tuned some time ago. (After it was blown up at another tuning house - no names).

You don't see me playing these dyno claims to try and make my tuning look good and smear DG so I'm not going to accept you guys playing these games with me.

I am sure you know about the Blue STI that I tuned this week that was previoulsy tuned at your place. I did not post anything about it, I did not say anything, I just did the job, collected my money and that is all. Sure it pissed me off when the customer told me all the crap you guys were telling him about me and my work. Heck if that is how you have to market youself go right ahead.

Remember, I built my own Evo drag car, I tune it myself, and I drive it myself. I have been doing this stuff for a long time since the Evo first came out. Don't expect to trash talk my work and I am going to keep my mouth shut.

Al

 

THe guy will not show up due to back and forth that is going on. We all know that the car in question is not going to hit 390-400 @ 26psi. He will need more mods and boost. I'm sure he made more power than AL's tune due to it being leaner..

 

Hey It's about time an educated Bias person like yourself without any emotional attachments can read through the lines. I offered the customer a Free dyno tomorrow morning which he agreed on last nights conversation before DG's fan boys jumped in. If I am wrong please prove me.

-George Kakaletris

 

I concur with what you are saying

I also wanted to add that we certainly could have increased his power higher than what he left with

The concept of tuning a street driven car on pump gas is to leave a significant margin of saftey on the table as far as the a.f and timing so that the car will not blow up or break if for example a bad tank of gas is picked up or of the customer does a few pulls in a row and heat soaks the fmic , etc

Simply put, I don't tunecars with stock blocks and pump gas to the limit or edge of the most power than can be made

HOW MUCH power to leave on the table in reserve is a matter of the tuner's discretion and judgement made with input from the customer's feedback on how they drive the car and how adverse they are to risk

To say that any car I tuned in the past 7 years of reflashing Evo ecus could make more power by leaning it out more is 100% correct. IF I had a car leave here on pump gas that could not pick up more power by leaning it out and rasing the timing that means there was no saftey margin left on the table and IMHO that tune up was way too agressive.

I hope that Evo owners reading this can appreciate that any tune must leave a significant widow of saftey to accomidate for variation in fuel quality and climatic conditions.

What has bothered me is not a claim that the customer wanted more power and went for a more agressive tune.

What bothers me is that a claim is made that my tune somehow lost 50 whp in a two day period after it ran consistantly over a 13 month period.

 

The customer is good kid I have nothing bad to say about him. He just got caught up in the middle of all this B.S that's all. I am sure he will show up he is very understanding along with myself.

This thread is water under the bridge after he shows up tomorrow. I will not bad mouth DG or try to manipulate the customer. I just want to prove my point and let him see first on hand what is really going on.

I am a very honest person. This tuning side of my business does not pay my bill's it's a hobby.

-George Kakaletris

 

can i get a free dyno run? i made 297whp at efi logics and would love to see what it makes on a dynojet!

i agree with george and al....forums make people misinterpret other peoples intentions so have a good fathers day and forget about it!!!

 

Wow is all I have to say.

Threads like these are what brings shops down for doing work.

We re-tuned a car. It made power, customer was satisfied and happened to get out of hand on his opening post.

All of a sudden fingers get pointed at us for doing our work. I have no control on who is to say what, where, and when.

I can't help that our loyal customers/friends are going to jump in here to defend us and the same goes to dynoflash/ICS who I have respect for.

I want to speak briefly upon the car we did tune:

He was dead even and in fact lost a few times against an evo x gsr that put down 310whp here. The car we re-tuned baselined in the 270's and weighs less. Sure drivers race but the evo 9 should be kicking the evo x's a**. Why would we manipulate numbers to make someone feel good when the data was here from the start. 310whp overweight evo x beating a 360whp evo 9 which weighs less obviously is not right.

On a side note, Charlie used CBRD's dyno for his own personal clients. Charlie did not tune for CBRD. Chad is the tuner!

 

Well said in that 1st post Al.

Al is an excellent tuner, and ICS seems like a great shop. George and Al... keep up the great work you 2 do

I dont know anyone at DG but they to seem to be great shop.

What we have here is a customer... that does not even know what he is taking about, or knows what he wants? Bottom line op is your car is strong, for stock cams and turbo! Be happy with that mang, you can only go so far with what you have!

 

Sure please email me, if your interested I have time this evening or any other evening.

GeorgeKakaletris@gmail.com

-George Kakaletris

 

I am talking about a certain white pizza evo that was tuned by Junior @ The Shop. The one that made 567whp on there dyno dynamics and then went on ICS's Dynojet and made 562whp on a different day with basically the same conditions, nothing changed to the car.

So these claims of certain Dyno Dynamics reading crazy high because of "control x" arent 100% true. There has been a handful of other cars that have been on both dynos and i have seen the numbers.

 

First off Pete in doing what you did to me.. is water under the bring.. I do not hold a grudge

We tune many of your customers cars with great success and we are professional enough not to post up or give discount - free work to have customers rant and rave or bash you and your tuning skills - work. Lots of shop have nothing better to do but try to bring other shops down unethically.

You can blame yourself as a business owner for allowing such bull**** to happen on a public forum along with you cronies.

I tell Al all the time your work will speak for itself. Do the best you can make sure the tune is solid and that the customer is satisfied. No more no less.
I can guarantee you, if you pass by my shop you will not find any Nut Huggers hanging around..It's very un professional business.. to each own. Good Luck with DG Motors.

Get your car ready! Bad Bish is ready!

P.S Learn to drive your own car. I am my own pilot.


-George Kakaletris

 

Dude go away already - Loose Lips sink ships... If you want a free dyno come down.. it's that simple, if you did not have any doubts in the back of your mind you would stop bailing the ship.

Make an appointment and drop by it's that simple.

GeorgeKakaletris@gmail.com

-G

 

[QUOTE=DG Motors;7197222]obviously is not right.

[QUOTE]

Since you had the car on your dyno and were operating your equipment perhaps you would not mind if I come by to look at your run files and you can show me the correction factors used and we can also look at the data you logged such as boost, a.f, timing, etc and we can put our heads together and find out what "obviously was not right"

Pete, after tuning Evos for 7 years, one thing I can tell you is that I know exactly what is wrong with a car when its down 50 whp

50 whp is a huge power loss and your story just does not add up

The street race happened last week - BEFORE we re-dynoed the car

How can the car be down on power during the street race and then roll in and set near record power on our dyno making 360 / 360 ?

The customer called George to say that he was concerened with his power and George offered to have it tested and arranged for me to dyno the car and check the power on our dyno

This is the way that George does things. If the customer has a problem then he wants to test it and get to the bottom of the story and fix the problem. In this case there was NO PROBLEM - the car was spot on and perfect

The car was dynoed UNCORRECTED with a ambeint temp in the 70 degree range and put down 360 / 360. I video taped the whole thing and documented it all with the customer watching. (Why - becuase of the stuff I heard you guys saying I knew where this was headed).

This was all after the street contest and without any changes

We changed his oem original plugs and took care of some spark scatter and the car picked up a few more whp

Please fill me in and educate me about what the "problem" was when the car reached your facility

Obviously for tuning to have picked up 50 whp there must have been a huge error or mistake on my part which is why I find it so bizzare that his car made near RECORD power levels on our dyno

Clearly, you and I can put our minds together and you can show me all the details and we can discover how this power was made? (I Hope)

Lets cut the BS. I know what you did and you know what you did.

Playing the adjustable dyno game is simply a game.

There are a lot of very well informed members on here and when you are trying to claim 390 - 400 DYNO JET whp on a car with 26 psi - stock turbo / stock cams / pump gas / stock ecu then I think that unless you can back that up your going to look a bit foolish.

I know and you know that there is no way to make that kind of power at that boost level on pump gas safely. In order to get close to 400 whp you need to lean the car out significantly and spike the boost up to at least 30 psi. On pump gas it would be knocking significantly to reach that kind of power level.

If what I am saying is not true then I am sure you will now educate us all about the DG way.

Al

 

itteresting. i would love to see this car back on a dj.

gorge. if the car owner is to much of a sis to come put a wager on it. tell him its free and if the car indeed makes 390+ give him 50 bucks. if its less wel lhave a nice day.

im also one for being tired of hearing this dyno number =s this on a dj. but never really see it backed up.