before scrolling down, please read the following:

1. the car was out of mechanical timing with the fp red and using comp 272 cams. (1 tooth off on intake cam)
2. the wideband was broken on the car and in the mid 10's with the fp black tune. (11.0-11.5 max on tailpipe sniffer)
3. the afr with the fp red was 11.5ish as opposed to the black at mid 10's. (12's on tailpipe sniffer)
4. timing was left the same for comparison purposes.
5. the fp black has gsc s2 cams and upgraded valvetrain.

For final results please scroll to the bottom

car: evo 8 MR 6spd
fuel: 93octane
Engine: stock block

Remote tuned on real dynojet at Moore Automotive. We just finished this about 10PM tonight.

Mods:

fp black
ETS fmic, uicp, licp
fic 1050cc
walbro 255
sparktech non cdi
br ported exhaust manifold
gsc s2
turbosmart raceport bov
hallman pro mbc
jm fab 4" sd intake /w hks filter
map o2 housing
hks catback + testpipe
act extreme duty xtss clutch
stock ecu with speed density


30psi (final numbers of the tune staying on car):




We tried more boost but the car started to knock so we backed it off, but heres the results of a 33psi spike:




For comparison here's the car with the fp red at 32psi:




And heres the overlay of all 3:




And heres an overlay of the fp black at 30 and the red at 32:



By the graph you can see the fp black dominates past right around 5500rpm till redline. However, the fp red is more responsive downlow even despite given the disadvantage by starting the pull later in the RPM powerband. this is expected though.. the fp black has a larger compressor wheel.

Hopefully this information can help someone on the fence that is looking for a turbo and cant decide between the black and the red. both are great turbos.

*** keep in mind the fp red was done with comp 272 camshafts and fp black with gsc s2.

porting the intake manifold and a few other things should get this car in the 480 range on 93. it should be 500+ as is no problem on e85.

Virtual Dyno VS Real Dynojet:





more proof the virtual dyno is almost dead on.

==================================================







Heres the final result after completing the road tuning. We decided to leave the boost at 28psi for 93octane.

still seems to be dropping off power uptop. see here for a overlay of a similar bolt on evo 9 vs this evo 8 https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/9458759-post34.html

EDIT: CARS FIXED! huge leak at fuel rail see here for new results; https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/9463965-post51.html

 

Awesome, I was kinda on the fence between a red and black. I like the early power and torque of the red but I think I'll rather have the power potential of the black. Was hoping to see a little more hp on pump though, why was it knocking not enough octane?

 

its all about your power goals. there's no reason to get a bigger turbo if your goals are only so much.. that's why its important to know what turbo does what.

from the information i posted, you can gather that the fp red spools quicker then the black by quite a bit, but the fp black breathes way better past 6k.

if you're after more HP in general, then i definitely recommend you choose the fp black. The black will make about 30-40whp more then the red normally.

This car has always been a pain in the *** to extract power with. I've done a bunch of evo 9's with fp blacks on stock blocks with 93oct and they normally make around 480-490 with a few more mods.

Really though if you want to safely run 500whp e85 is your easy way out. Its very easy to make high numbers on e85.

33psi was to much for the octane yes. if we put e85 in this car it would make some good numbers im sure.

do you have an evo 8 or 9?

 

this is awesome. i've been looking for this comparison for a few weeks now. I went with a RED because I got a great deal on it but was still wondering what it would've been like with a BLACK since they retail at the same price. Those are some solid numbers almost identical to mine. Thanks for the info!

 

Outstanding results. I have a couple questions.

How safe is that level of boost on a stock block? I've never seen that kind of boost on a stock block in New Zealand.

What's the drivability of the car? Daily or more of a race application?

I'm really interested in the black, just working out the practicability of it or if the red will be more what I want.

 

If you haven't seen 30psi being screwed through an evo engine in NZ, you're looking in the wrong places

if you are looking for a turbo, flick me a PM. i might be selling my FP Red soonish.

 

very informative post thanks for posting up. it would be interesting too to see the hta fp green overlayed with the red and black all on pump.

 

Cheers, I live in Hamilton, all I see is hondas, rotors, wrxs and evo 4s being killed at 20 psi with MBCs. Relatively new to the HP EVO scene as well. Will pm if I decide I'm interested.

 

The car is a Daily driver,the driveability are being retuned in for the new cams and turbo. Also found out the previous shop did not know how to check timing and my intake cam was off a full tooth.Before this it was smoother then a Evo on a stock MAF and stock setup.

 

I'd be pretty disappointed with that little of a gain from a turbo and cam swap. Is the compression of the motor healthy? It seems like something is keeping Josh's car from making the power that it should with those mods. It also seems laggy for a Red and Black. Shouldn't the torque be closer to 275 to 290 or so at 4k rpm in 3rd gear? That's what I saw with the Red and Black on both a stock and built block and with both Comp 280s and the BF 272 cams.

 

This is just the intial tune its gonna be tweaked a little more on the road. We did a leak down and all the cylinders and it was good. We did this as we did the valve seats,springs and retainers.

 

you're comparing a 6 speed to a 5 speed..

the fp red at 32psi doesnt make as much power as the black at 30psi.. thats 2psi less boost and theres 20whp gain.

ask Josh how the car feels compared to the red setup.. he told me the car pulls much harder uptop now.. so i think hes happy.

As for his car in general.. im not sure how its compression is. based on power it makes per boost and timing though, id say its in good condition.

afr is dead on at spoolup, so there's no way its spooling any quicker then it is now. maybe the 6spd cant load up the car as good as 5spd i dont know.

the boost plot is shown in the virtual dyno prog.. its hitting full boost well before 5k so what is the complaint here? its not going to spool any quicker then that on a 2L with no mivec.

i worked with what i got, and only posted the results so people could see a realistic comparison between the red and black. in this case its about 40whp difference.

 

tom is correct since the cams and the change the spool is slower only 2-300rpms later and its pulls very hard up top 100x better then before.

 

I'm not trying to criticize the tune or the build. It just seems like something is probably off mechanically somewhere. In any case, it's tough to compare the turbos when you are also putting a Comp 272->GSC S2 cam swap in the mix. I would actually expect those cams to pick up 20+ whp alone up top compared to the Comps even keeping the turbo the same.

 

ya i understand. its interesting the results i gathered when i retuned this car on the black and gsc s2.. it was like the cams were never changed. i didnt have to change any timing downlow, it just wanted the same timing everywhere.. that tells me the comp 272 are not so much different in this particular case.

we will spend more time on it and post some more data on the car as we get it.

ill go over his mod list with him and have him double check timing marks and stuff just for reassurance that everythings as it should be.. but maybe the comp 272 weren't as bad as we initially thought after all.

its not what you call a perfect comparison i agree.. the red was done on 6/8/11