Mychailo

Do you have a link to the English Racing 525whp FP Green Dyno, or Curt Browns 550whp dyno on FP Green.
Would be interesting to see.
That is what I observe, exactly.
FP Green 25-30whp ultimate potential over HKS.
Also, larger turbo- lwor EGT potentially or at least little less backpressure so little more "friendly" on track events with long sessions.

I am able to still move on to FP Green.
Considering it seriously.

 

I saw Lucas' dyno plot lying on a pile of paperwork at English Racing. I don't think that Lucas or Aaron ever posted it. It was done with a 2.4L motor. You'll have to search for Curt's dyno plot. Just search on CBRE as the thread starter. You'll see something about a 600 whp dyno result with an HTA Green.

 

I think this is the one you are looking for.

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...ace-green.html

 

The one I saw at ER was only 475wtq/525whp, so this one is even more impressive.

 

Plenty of people over 500. This is why I went Green, great spool and 550hp capable. Awesomeness.

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...green-dbb.html

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...519-527-a.html

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...91oct-e85.html

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...522-486-a.html

 

Aha
On big engines.
OK, so maybe 500-510whp on 2.0 is about what we can look forward to?

I heard from Aaron that they did a 530whp FP Green.
Thanks guys

 

510 whp for sure on a good setup. If I put on my benchracing hat, I'd bet that I could make 525-530 whp by switching to R2s and going SD.

 

Those stroker graphs though despite having great pickup in the low end, look like it's game over by 5.5 - 6K rpm or so with power leveling off or dropping from that point on. What's the point of having a motor you can rev to 8.5K when it's making no more power than at 5.5-6K. Maybe it feels different than the graph makes it look.

 

The turbos are just too small. A good turbo on a stroker will make power to past redline. But if you want a stock style powerband with response and MORE everywhere the stroker and small turbo is hard to beat. I want to replicate CBRE Green on a 2.3L graph. I think 600whp on a Dynojet is plenty. Even though my setup is made to handle 800+ I don't need it. More response is good for point and shoot daily driving.

 

Yea but if your gonna make 500hp, I would rather make it at 6k than at 8k. Making the power earlier just makes the car more fun.

 

So I saw a couple of the 515-530whp FP Green dyno graphs so far, specifically from English Racing on Stroker motors.
I'll throw out any possibility of 600whp as in CBRE dyno...for obvious reasons.

SD for me is not a good option, I like the fine-tune that stock MAF allows in all conditions. I cannot claim to know how to tune it so fine, but I will learn and enjoy the idea that my MAF is well suited.
I also think based on your testing Mychailo that the MAF pressure drop is not a big deal.

What I am troubled by, which is a heavy word, call it "wish it was less compromised", that
HKS 7460 runs out of breath about 490-500whp on DJ.
FP Green about 515-530whp and maybe we should call that 525whp max to keep it reasonable.

What I wish is the bottom end response of an HKS 7460, with a little more top-end power than even FP Green BB presents, like the ability to make honest to goodness 475whp on MD which maybe is 550whp on English Racing DJ.

Best of both worlds.
And its very close.
HKS makes for EVO X a larger version of the 7460 called I think 8262. Its like +20% flow rate over 7460, so a bit more than FP Green. Perfect match.

But no application for our Evo 4G63/64 cars.

I considered BBK-B BB, but the feedback by owners his that is only starting to spool at 2750 on 91 octane, and comes into its own after 4500rpm, like FP Black I think.
While BBK-Full is very close to both FP Green and HKS, so not the answer.

I learned in an article from the MLR, Mitsubishi Lancer Register in UK, their club magazine, that Owen Developments has been making not only BB conversion for the Evo 9 turbo, but also custom billet wheels and more, supplying limited special order turbo's to the Time Attack community.
One such car was featured, and it has about 550hp, not sure if its BHP, WHP , and on what dyno.
But judging by the complete package I would be surprised if it was not 550whp, maybe DJ.
The UK tracks are often tight, so mid range is important, even though maybe use huge turbo's, I think this car was featured because it actually won its class over such GT35 powered monsters.

I have occasionally accidentally taken off lights/stop signs in 3rd gear in my Evo with HKS7460 with drive that is so natural that is simply like normal other cars.


One last note:
Cars with Dump for wastegate do make more power, but that is not acceptable to me.
However, its evident how important is good exhaust, including Donwpipe.
Aaron from English Racing himself mentioned that is critical to be able to exhaust what you ingested efficiently, and that backpressure eventually drops VE and limits the turbo as well as engine.

We, Mychailo and myself, both now have MAP new downpipe with Recirculating wastegate.
I hope this is the adequate answer, that we are not compromising back pressure- again citing Aaron who advised that anything beyond Invidia and proper 3" downpipe is waste of money- seems like we have made the right decision and we are not leaving anything on the table.

 

Is this the DP you are talking about:
http://www.maperformance.com/map-sta...o2e-ss-vr.html

How much better is that than the eBay 02 + 3" DP solution which is what I interpret you're saying is Aarons standard?

Mrfred - Have you thought about lowering the boost on the Green to match the BBK boost curve so you get a more solid apples/apples comparison? I'm not sure that the # of turns of wastegate preload between turbos is really a good metric. Differences in casting geometry, -gate flapper diameter tolerances, porting, etc all play into how the preload is irrelevant.

To me it looks like those turbos make nearly the same power if boost was leveled out. Sure wish I would have caught that BBK you were selling!

 

O2/DP: I figure that since the exhaust gases are at their greatest specific volume as the leave the turbine (compared to at the muffler), this is where diameter and flow matter the most. Spending the bucks on the MAP O2 eliminator is another one of those diminishing returns purchases. If you want ever last bit of potential power, then get it. If you don't care about noise, the dumps are even better at this and a bit cost less.

Boost-to-boost: I have different cams now, so too late to go back. Even though it wasn't boost for boost, it still feels to me that the Green wins out by a slight margin. Perhaps I'm letting myself be unfairly convinced by the easily quantifiable slightly larger turbine and compressor inducer diameters on the Green and ignoring potential but not easily quantifiable differences in wheel efficiencies and other things that you mention.

 

What a close call, i guess it really comes down to journal bearing or ball bearing.

 

Both of these turbos that I tested are journal bearing.