Dig up the dsport article up I think you will still enjoy it no matter what. They tested like 50 camshafts. I enjoyed it, so there's no way you wont!

If you dig up some of my older posts, you will see what I mean about the s3 on stock turbo. I know its out of its recommended usage area, but it still works. it does of course shift the entire power band to the right slightly though.

 

As I said, although I know what I am about to read, I might give it a look, thanks.


I already know what you mean, as I know the cam characteristics of the S3s. Personally I would never run them on a stock turbo car, unless I was building a drag setup solely for the track running on Q16 i.e.


What matters is that your customers are satisfied with what you offer them, since they like running them on the stock turbo then that's all it is.





Marios

 

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...l#post10602489 (stock cams vs s3 on stock turbo)

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...l#post10607382 (gsc s2 vs s3 on stock turbo)

heres another one https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...l#post10883238

It comes down to the parts setup. On certain cars (usually big turbo 2.0L's the S3 will make a drastic impact on spool for the worst), vs some of the smaller turbo and depending on mods it wont affect it much at all.

I think just quick searching, i found 20+ cars I did on S3 cams with stock turbo, and none of them had drastic affects on low end tq as one would think would occur.

Obviously if i was told by a customer "I want a setup that's going to spool the fastest and let nothing low end on the table and i want to stay with a stock turbo, I wouldn't sell them an S3 cam even though in the testing it does show in 3rd gear it matches spool even to a stock cam. I would say the S1 cam for obvious reasons on a 2.0L.

Just take a look at some of those comparisons I dug up for you though. Its interesting. Its the opposite of what you might expect.

 

s2 lets just be friends guys. s2 are always a good choice for a stock block

 

i'll just add that i picked up 20 whp with no change in boost threshold rpm (no loss in "spool") when switching from hks to s2 on an hta green.

 

S2 are good as well.

If you glanced at that S2 vs S3 post make sure you read they are not the same cars, and we were only comparing spool curve only.

For your setup the S3 will probably lag the spool enough for you to hate the setup. So S2 was a good choice.

The EF2 (2.0L) im finishing up soon has S3's in it, so that should be interesting. We went with S3 only because S2 are on back order.

 

Hi Tom, I'm surprised you went with the S3 vs let's say a kelford 272 since the S2 are backordered. I'll definitely like to subscribe to that thread to see how the results turn out.

 

Torque looks VERY safe for a stock block.

 

I'll start from the last two sentences as its the only part that I feel I need to address to, it is not the opposite. S3s will lose low end power and will affect the intended boost threshold even on the stock turbo, which is a tiny turbocharger in comparison to the turbochargers the S3s are developed for. It is a unit developed for the street. If one type and variation of cam suited every application from stock turbo to gt42 i.e, a magic cam that is, then all the rest of the variations would have been not in existance.


If one wants to go big power, do a setup for big power, using the S3s. On a stock turbo that flows hardly the cfm to support/take advantage of an S2 I would never use the S3s especially on pump gas, as I would get only a part of the goodness the cam offers,the part I would also get from the hks272, but a full part of the negatives.


Tom,you are talking to someone that has been involved in motorsports setups you have already done, and some you will most likely never touch, and that has been into motorsport of 20 years, there is no need for you to try to convience me of something I already have my own views and opinion on.



Repeating myself, to me it's all down to personal preference, since your customers like the powerband a set of S3s and stock turbo gives them then there is nothing more to it.


What matters is that you keep offering your good services to those who come to you for getting their setup where they want it.


Just for reference only, on a first generation fp green back in '07, the second guy in Europe that had bought and used one of the first fp greens, happened to be me. That specific setup did, 362whp at 1.65 bar and 392whp at 1.96bar on hks 272 on a Cartec low reader dyno with ambient temperature 32-35celcius. Cartec dynos are comparable to low reader Mustangs.


Getting the most out of your turbo/cams combo is half on choosing the right cam set for your turbo/intended goal of the setup and half of it on dialing of the cams.



I have not been through the links btw, I will do later on.



I also wanted to point out that I do not either sell, or have any sort of affiliation with hks or gsc, my views are solely through my personal knowledge and experiences. If I was living in the U.S of A I would also use gsc as I do consider them a good company at what they do.





Marios

 

Because I have experience with them on similar small turbo setups, and they work really well.

The only link that's a good direct comparison is the first one. stock cams vs S3 cams.

Sometimes using products against what they are recommended for will get you more power then the other recommended part throughout the powerband. It happens all the time. Its weird, but it happens.

Nothing more I can really say.

 

You shouldn't bother. This guy claims he can make an FP red reach 31-32 psi on a stock block Evo by 2800-2900rpm, and do it with ZERO compressor surge...lol

 

I was also about to comment that as well and that you should not even bother responding to the guy. I too have experience with cars going from OEM to S3 with a difference that isn't even remotely noticeable.

This car seems to make really good numbers, congrats to the owner.

 

What is the a/r on the turbo?

 

Most likely .82 since its T3 not T4 twinscroll

 

Cam selection in very dependent on Head modifications/Turbo size and intake manifold.
Back on the day I made 562hp/484tq on a 2.0/fp3052 on e85 running HKS 272 cams. I think a lot of people are just tossing big cams at cars and not matching the rest of the set up.