2006EvoIXer

iTrader: (1)

I was told that even stock block with mods, it makes phantom knock louder. My head is built and I have FBO, so it is expected to knock more. I remember tuner listening with headphones when he was starting base tuning. Not sure if he was listening to knock though. I am curious about how much knock I'll pick up with oem settings, so I'll put these values and and log this weekend.

2006EvoIXer

iTrader: (1)

Do you pick up any knock with oem settings?

Wicked_X

I picked up random knock when my S1's were installed on my stock block/head. Could be because it was stock, tired valve springs tho. But my knock sensitivity is reduced a bit to compensate for it

Abacus

iTrader: (9)

Concerning knock filters.
I tuned a buddies Evo 9 in south america a few years ago using the file I created on my own car . This was after I totally understood what timing values these cars live with, the results of my own car and hours on a dyno alongside a professional. My buddy put his car on the dyno on pump gas then race gas. We adjusted the timing and knock filters. I ended up leaving them 2 clicks above stock since it was a built engine and I used conservative timing . Made multiple pulls back to back to rule out false knock while adjusting the filters and looking at the dyno graph. Also added timing but if you aren't seeing significant gains then back the timing back off. The only reward you get for using really high timing values is an engine rebuild .

If you want to continue to tune your own car I would still take a class and read as much as possible from credible sources .https://www.hpacademy.com

This is also a good guide to read. Logging knock base and voltage and asking yourself what normal timing these cars live with is a good place to start.

https://www.evoscan.com/ecuflash/Mer...UIDE-V1.7a.pdf

RazorLab

iTrader: (8)

Sure, some tweaking of the knock filters can be acceptable if precautions are taken but yours are like 3x higher (and basically turned off in the low end) which is not usual for an OEM engine.

Project_Broke

iTrader: (2)

This 1000%. I have only touched one knock table on an OEM bottom end, and it was my own. Small sample size, maybe 10, but you get the idea.

I've also had a few extremely quiet built motors. I can't say I've had a "noisy" OEM one however, within reason of course.

I will say the car probably pulled like a freight train with that much timing.

Abacus

iTrader: (9)

Guys, Adding timing helps produce power to a certain point but then its small/no gains and just harder on bearings. This gets worse with a small back pressure limited turbo. Here is an easy to understand video .

The tuner already knew what ballpark the timing needed to be based on his years of tuning and track record. He chose a conservative number, then cranked the boost up and cleaned up the AF/fuel trim/VE. Probably adjusted the boost controller as well to follow target closer.
Then adjusted the timing to see if there was power there. If what Adam says is correct it was .

453@ 25psi @ x timing
468@ 25psi @ x timing with a leaner AFR
480@ 28psi @ x timing
495@ 30psi @ x timing
520@ 30psi@ x timing+ 1 degree
524@ 30psi @ x timing + 2 degrees

The gains weren't worth it at X plus 2 degrees so they dialed it back.




Choose a well known low timing value for your compression/engine. Dial in the AFR. Dial the boost up to what you want to run. Adjust the timing to see where the significant and safe gains are. Call it a 2-3 degree window . Not 10. With these engines you will see more gains with boost then timing ( when its in the right spot )

Lets say you end up making 500 @ 7500 with 13 degrees of timing and its running well. Could back it off 1-2 degrees and then run it at the drag strip or use a Draggy device. Run it, log it. Then add the 1-2 degrees back in and run it/log it. Compare the data. Boost, timing, afr,knock activity. Just because it will take xx timing on the dyno with one cowboy pass doesn't mean to leave it there. Back it off and work back up to it. Or decide to splash in some better fuel and run it.

2006EvoIXer

iTrader: (1)

You convinced me not to push this 71hta any further. Lol
Time for next turbo.

Abacus

iTrader: (9)

Trying to convince you to have your car retuned.

But if you are ok with where its at after what Bryan and I have said then thats your decision.

2006EvoIXer

iTrader: (1)

The new tune is from a pro tuner and I reduced the WGDC to where I'm comfortable with. But I am learning from everyone's help. I'll restore the stock settings and log knock voltage to see what my sensor will pick up.
Thanks everyone for the crash coarse on what to check.

heel2toe

iTrader: (41)

Is this the pro tuner who essentially disabled your knock filters? I learned a wile ago that being a professional doesn't mean you are good at your profession. Instead all it means is that you get paid. I don't mean to come across as rude but the point I'm trying to make is from the sounds of it, you should find a new tuner. Your motor will be happier, car will run smoother and be more reliable.

2006EvoIXer

iTrader: (1)

Not rude at all!
I need to put back oem values and log runs with knock voltage to see what kinds of knock I get. Then I can set this up right. To be fair, we had a limited amount of time to tune, and I think he bumped those up so he doesn't get interference in tuning since previous tune showed no knock and his tune removed all the timing. I think he forgot to put old setting back, which looks like it shut off knock sensor when under 3500 rpm and reduced sensitivity 1-3 steps tapering up.

I'll try to do this tonight and see what the log records.

LetsGetThisDone

iTrader: (1)

Knock voltage is an filtered value straight from the sensor. Its a good thing to reference it, but it's not the only thing to look at.

Turning the knock sensor off is not how you "expedite" the tuning process.

2006EvoIXer

iTrader: (1)

A quick update. I put back oem settings and got a little knock in spool rpms. It pulled a little timing too.

2006EvoIXer

iTrader: (1)

I found a surprise as well. When I we working with new tuner, I noticed my boost would drop to less than 50 for about 1000rpm interval WOT. I figured it out tonight!