It's just that though, an opinion

I do not believe the $2000 warrents a AEM for the price of a FLASH you can get like 95% of what you need on pump gas. An EMS will get me less then 20WHP if I got one, that is for sure. But it would give me better spoolup, way better idle with larger cams, better smother powerband and so on. These large turbos and stoker kits and then alcohol injection or nitro and so on I mean a standalone is nice as it gives you 100% control by ditching the stock ECU. The fastest stock Turbo pump gas (93) Evo's I have seen were EMS and trapping at 118MPH


Pump gas I believe a MAF is fine but a BIG turbo and race gas it is nice to have. I also noticed it was easier to run higher boost with the EMS on pump gas.

How restrictive is the MAF Vs. having just a straight 30 or 4.0 intake? I know for a FACT the MAF reacts to vibrations, waiting at the staging lane if a big V8 is reving my car almost dies so it is effected by some things.

IDK, all out, wouldn't you make more power and a smoother cruver with a properly tuned Speed Density unit and ditching the ECU?

 

No, one would not. The only limiting issues with a MAF-based system is volume limitations (at what level/cfm it maxes out its freq reading) and intake restrictions (measured in inches of mercury). The former hasn't been an issue with anything I've tested (up to 600whp on an AWD Dynojet). Neither has the latter since neither I (nor anyone I know) have ever been able to measure any appreciable vacuum between the factory air filter and the turbo inlet. So if the combination of factory intake and MAF induces negligable restriction, the MAF, by itself, also offers negligable restriction. This issue sould be put to bed.

To date, no one has been able to offer any proof that ditching their MAF has yielded improved spool up. This is because it doesn't and no one has been able to bend the laws of fluid dynamics

Ditching a sensor that actually measures airflow for a sensor that only estimates it isnt a good move unless you remove inherent system limitations while doing so. In the system descrived (600whp and below), this is not the case. However, mapping a stock MAF'd EVO with larger injectors, GT35R at 30psi isn't something that everyone knows how or has the means to do. Whereas doing with a stand alone is easy as pie. The hard part with the stand alone, however, is to keep the level of drivability and adaptability that we've seen possible with a MAF-based system. It's certainly possible but it takes some deep pockets and a lot of tuning time

As for MAFs reacting to vibrations, sure it will. That's the whole idea of keeping it properly isolated (like it would be in the stock intake system). If one were to run an aftermarket hot air intake with no appropriate support (like most that I've seen), they will be subject to issues that they should never experience. But that's a problem with the aftermarket intake, not with the stock MAF.

BTW, we've tuned more than a few EVOs that run 117-118mph traps with the stock turbo and stock MAF. The limiting factor is the turbo, not the MAF.

Just my 2c,
Shiv

 

How did you determine that the sound/vibration of the loud car is affecting the MAF and not some other system like the knock sensor? My car always misses a beat when I close the hood. I always assumed it was the knock sensor.

 

Ditto. My car freaks out at the track when I'm waiting to stage and some drag car burns them down at the line. It actually kinda pisses me off because I'm afraid its going to scare my poor little knock sensor enough to drop me to the lower map The car also hiccups pretty badly if I drop the hood while its running as well.

 

I am pretty sure that is the MAF.

 

I don't argue that a MAF is not better then speed density because it is far superior. Nothing is more accurate then actual airflow information. The problem with the stock MAF is it's a mass production part. It is susceptible to a number of things, one being vibration. Quality control is also not high since it is also made of plastic.
A blow through MAF would be a much better choice since it only measures the air that is actually flowing into the engine. It removes a lot of the variables before the Throttle Body.
The decision to go to a quality blow through MAF has to be weighed against the price and the option to eliminate MAF and just use a AEM.

As far as the restriction presented by the MAF. You wont get any real measure using inches of mercury (vacuum gauge) as the testing equipment. You really need to use a Manometer (inches of water) to measure the absence of pressure and or the differential of flow. It is far more sensitive then a vacuum gauge measuring in Hg.

 

Shiv did a great job tuning my car. At first, the lag of it untuned was a little rough for me at first, but Shiv worked his magic and got the turbo spooling pretty quickly for it size. Plus, the power on pump gas is incredible.

I have not lost any driveability upgrading to the new turbo. The only thing that is different is the car is louder. I have no stalling, CEL, hiccups, etc. I even got 340 miles on a tank of gas which worked out to be 31mpg . Shiv must have given me the fuel economy flash.

I am very happy w/ the results. I am not out here to set HP records. I just wanted good driveable power and that is what I got.

 

I did not think that the AEM standalone with stock turbo was necessary but actually from just reading above statements, its really confirmed my thoughts. Although, I did see an EVO on the stock turbo with EMS on pump (no alky/water) make 370whp. I havent seen too many flashes ones do that.. YET!

 

is this turbo worth the upgrade for pump gas and alky?

 

I gained close to 70hp on pump gas. At one point in the tune, Shiv had made 95hp more then the stock turbo on pump. This turbo is worth it.

 

If you dont agree with my testing of vacuum, how would you explain that the complete removal of the MAF/intake filter yielded no additional power?

Shiv

 

how is spool up compare to stock?

 

I reach 23psi by ~4500rpm in 3rd gear. Once it hits ~3800rpm you better hold on.

 

As for the MAF and vibrations, I believe the stock air box has rubber isolators where it bolts down. Maybe that why I have never seen the idle drop when rumbling V-8's are by me.

 

At this power level I would not expect to see it make a difference. I was only stating the best way to measure a difference between the two if you really want to see if there is any difference in pressure.