what is this corrosion you guys keep mentioning about??? I think corrosion is more likely to occur in a car if its run on alcohol/alcohol-water because alcohol is a ~mild degreasing agent....

 

water + thorttle body = ....?

 

If anything, methanol would be more 'corrosive' than water, especially where aluminum is concerned. However, this seems to be largely a non-issue in this application.

I don't know what one expects for his $500, but if it's best power potential, straight methanol + tuning is the means to get there. Furthermore, before one decides to inject straight water, he may not need be concerned about A/F, but he may need to be concerned about hydraulic lock to the engine, which can be disasterous (it would be in my case) - may want to check into the anticipated injection volumes before going that route.

 

the nozzles that i'm using are in the range of several gph. The orifice is way smaller than those NOS jets. www.mcmaster.com - part number 3178K81 to K87.I'll set my boost, then start w/ the smallest nozzle and monitoring the situation via knock link. If it knocks, i'll just go to the next bigger nozzle. I dont remember where i read, the water to fuel ratio should be in the range of ~15 to 25%.

 

Actually, water injection DOES alter the air:fuel ratio, because the water displaces air in the cylinders and therefore lowers the active "air" (oxygen) molecule ratio and inhibits burning (prevents knock). This is a good thing, in that it lets you increase boost and run leaner with less chance of detonation.

I too would like to see some tests of different ratios of alcohol to water to see what works best.

 

You can use washer fluid, as you have proven- it's cheap and readily available.

Most washer fluid is methanol and water or denatured alcohol (methanol plus ethanol) and water, so freezing with ethanol or methanol and water mixtures shouldn't be a problem. Most washer fluids are less than 30% alcohol.

 

WIK have been running in England and Europe for years and they have much experience with it. The purpose of the kit is not to work as an extra injector by releasing %100 flammable liquid the purpose is to cool the temperatures in the combustion champers. See a tuner will use more gas or rich the car up to cool the champers using extra gas causing the car to run richer (safer) and causing some power loss. WIK was designed and developed to cool the champers and the intake manifold so we can run leaner A/F ration (~12 to 1).

I like the alky kit which uses 100% Alcohol but by using 100 Alcohol you will be swerving from the main point and you better use straight race gas at this point because all you are doing now is making more power and heating up the champers to god knows how much.

WIK is made to make the car gain 10~20 WHP safely and cost effectively not made to run as an extra injector costing as much as race gas.

I will be running BR kit in end of July because of the nice price but I will be mixing 50% alcohol and 50% water so it wont freeze during the winter.

Hope that helped.

 

Water injection kits (e.g. Aquamist) are intended to use water or mixtures containing mostly water, and inject relatively low volumes of fluid (e.g. 200cc/min).

Alcohol injection requires injecting a much greater volume, and the hp benefits are absolutely greater.

Using 100% alcohol does not heat up the chambers, and does not require the use of race fuel. On the contrary, alcohol burns *cooler* than gasoline, and functions as the 'race fuel'. This allows power levels approaching that of race fuel, but on an on-demand basis and without the price tag of race fuel.

 

"Actually, water injection DOES alter the air:fuel ratio, because the water displaces air in the cylinders and therefore lowers the active "air" (oxygen) molecule ratio and inhibits burning (prevents knock). This is a good thing, in that it lets you increase boost and run leaner with less chance of detonation."

water injection occurs after the MAF. Fuel ratio is determined by how much air passes thru the MAF sensor........i dont see how that will alter af ratio

also, when water turns to steam, there is a huge volume change along with the endothermic effect. the +ve change in volume MAY also create extra pressure within the combustion chamber...ie. steam engine

 

I really need to figure out which to do. Some people have said that there are better HP gains with Methanol. Why? Also, does anyone have any experience/data on the corrosion with water injection? It seems so much nicer to be able to fill up with water (wherever, whenever) rather than trying to find methanol. Tuning for w/s washer fluid is almost as convenient, but the colorings are kindof a bummer (but I guess they really wouldn't cause any problems). Straight methanol seems not to be ideal as you lose a lot of heat capacity (and thus anti-knock effect). C'mon guys, get everything you know about this in here. We really need to learn a bit more about these options. Thanks!

 

The consensus of educated opinion seems to be:

The potential long-term corrosive effects of alcohol vs. aluminum tend to be minimal in this application.

The benefits of alcohol vs. water are dependent upon the volume of the injection with respect to the overall fuel charge. Smaller volumes favor water, while larger volumes favor alcohol.

The benefits of relatively large volumes of alcohol injection cannot be duplicated with water (which can be injected only in small volumes). However, injecting large volumes of alcohol requires significant retuning, for the purposes of both correcting the A/F and obtaining the desired power increase.

 

Thanks Ted.