Why dont you go, find yourself a nice lonely place and make love to this...



No lag, no power, so im sure it fulfills your every need.

Scorke

 

- An intake manifold with larger and/or shorter runners (e.g. Magnus) delays spool time.

- An exhaust manifold with larger, longer runners will delay spool time.

- Going from the split manifold flange to the large, open T3 type almost certainly causes an increase in spool time in itself, as does anything that reduces the velocity of exhaust gases.

- Cam settings definitely affect spool time as well. The more retarded the settings, the bigger the lag. Want quicker spool? Use a more advanced setting with a tight LSA.

- Tuning will affect spool time as well.


All these things considered, one can deliberately make adjustments to make a large turbo spool quicker if desired.

 

Ted B is a pimp, and almost flawless.

Scorke

 

Yes of course, that was just a careless writing mistake that I have now edited.

 

Actally I do have the sheet metal intake, the only differences in our cars are who we got out turbo's from and what exhaust manifold we are running. I have a thermal barrier coated Buschur Racing manifold.

People claiming 26 psi by 4500 RPM in 2nd gear on a 2.0 liter EVO need to post up a data log or shut the F#$% up.

Keith

 

Yes, I have had a few times, proven myself wrong when I was talking about how my BR440 spooled up by looking at the boost gauge/tach. Then you go look at the datalog from the ems, and the spoolup is quite a bit off from what my eye/brain thinks it is.

Im in process of putting the SCM61 (semi-comparable to GT35R) on my evo right now with the BR turbo kit parts. Ill have it added to the graphs/charts tonight. Will also post the axcell file so you guys can fart around with it if you like.

If you guys that are already contributing hard data to the thread can, please do a few 3rd, 4th, and 5th gear pulls from low rpm up to your target boost and log the info and PM me, or post it here. Id like to get more apple/apple type data for each gear.

IMHO, this is a pretty good "service to the community" to get data from a bunch of cars to have an "average" and post it up here. Id far rather show general "as bolted on" data, rather than "best case perfection" type data. The curves should show what can be expected without any special tuning/tricks done.

 

DAMN, according to smoggys chart....the 35r makes gobs of power over the 30r at about 5400 and above. I thought it would be later in the rpm band than that.

 

Not in 100 RPM increments, but here is the data I posted in my "GT35R impressions" thread.

RPM ------- 2nd ---------3rd ----------4th
2500 ---------.1 --------- .6 ------------ 1.0
3000 --------1.0 ------- 1.6 ------------ 1.9
3500 ------- 1.9 ------- 2.9 ------------ 3.4
4000 ------- 3.8 ------- 6.5 ------------ 8.1
4500 ------- 7.5 -------12.0 ---------- 15.4
5000 ----- 11.7 -------18.5 ---------- 18.5
5500 ----- 17.7 -------19.2 ---------- 19.3
6000 ----- 20.1 ------ 20.1------------ 19.8
6500 -------------------20.9 ------------ 20.6
7000 -------------------21.0 ------------ 21.2
7500 -------------------21.8 ------------ 22.2

The second gear data is from earlier in this thread with boost set at 20 psi. The 3rd and 4th gear data is from the other thread with boost set to 22 psi.

Keith

 

You know, that's all fine and dandy......I really love how you responded so quickly when I asked for you opinion, Snorke, snook, snackle whatever the hell you call yourself.

Case and point, I'm not following you sheep until I prove myself I'm wrong. You're an a$$ for even commenting and turning a friendly debate into a bash. If I'm wrong, I'm a gentlemen and I'll concede. but until then I'm aiming to try something different, and lowering my horsepower goals for the sake of driveability. Sit back, read, and if you've nothing positive to say, shut up.

I'm sick of people on this board, nothing constructive to say just arrogant comments....

 

Is this chart showing me that you dont get full boost till 7500 rpms. That cant be right. Maybe Im misunderstanding the chart.

 

From that last small chart posted by Fourdoor, in 3rd and 4th gear he is within 2psi of his boost target at about 5000rpm. There are a few reasons for the 2500rpm between when boost gets up to 18 at 5000 and 22 at 7500. There could be a small amount of boost creep. Wastegate spring pressure and when the gate opens has effect here too. I would consider the point when boost stops rising aggressivly ( you can see it in the boost curve charts, when the boost pressure starts to level off..that's when the wastegate starts to crack open.

All wastegates do not stay 100% shut untill you hit your target boost, then go wide open and hold it exactly there. It will crack open a few psi before you hit the max boost pressure you set the mbc for.

so if you consider 22psi his "full spool", yes...7500rpm If you consider 18psi his "full boost"...then it's 5000rpm. It's is such a dynamic thing, there is just no way to say in a sentance how well a turbo spools up. A graphical representation works best, or a ride in the car.

 

Trina, I get all of this. I might even go with a 3037 just for the sake of spool. Saying "Why do you need power below 4K rpms?" is llike saying "Why do you need power at all?"

This car is my daily driver and even when I have a beater car, will be my primary vehicle. Im aiming to pull 1.0g or better on a skid pad, run low 11's or below with the car if possible and make over 500whp on alchohol injection, while still maintaining liveable boost charachteristics. After being in a few GT35R turbo'd car, Ive concluded it is NOT for me, yet. It runs up at 4500 revs up to 8k in a hurry, but thats ALL of the useable power the car seems to have. Its like figthing the turbo the whole way, and I just dont like it. The 3037 was my primary choice, but after seeing ATP come out with a 3040, I figured what the hell, it might just work. Validating this idea are several people from over the pond, who have used the HKS turbo (similiar to the ATP and the FP3065) with fantastic results. It leans towards the GT35R end of the spectrum, but still seems I can attain my desire for spool.


What I dont understand is how my personal preferences can be chastized by some, ALL over this board, not just in this thread. Every time I say something different from the norm, someone chimes in and tells me Im stupid, crazy, uninformed or totally wrong because thats not whats proven, or what everyone ELSE is doing. I hate the fact that people just take everyones freakin' word for EVERYTHING and use it as bible. Im a few short steps away from just deleting my username and moving on.

 

Oh yea, IEEvo runs like 11.6 with a 30r. I know they can make some decent power. Are there any in the 10s? I have no clue, but for my application (drag racing) 35r is the way to go for maximum potential. If you wanted low end torque you needed to stick with the v8s. I don't really think a 30r has low end torque either, but that's my opinion. I think if you have to wait till 3500 to get power that is still quite a bit of lag. These engines are built to rev, so revving it to make power is fine. If you had to rev your v8 to 5000 rpm every time you wanted to make power you might be in trouble, but a 2 liter 4 banger has no problem revving up to 7k. It's about piston speed not revs anyway.

As far as this "I make 26psi by 4000 rpm crap." Until proof is posted i'm not buying it. My friend has a 10 second eagle talon with a stock like manifold (log). He spools no better than I do. In fact he spools a bit worse. I have a feeling any of these pulls where you get decent boost by decent rpms are in 4th/5th gear.

 

So where are these logs 1 post wonder. Going by your post record i highly doubt we will get the logs to prove what you are sayng.

 

fre, all valid points and I enjoy the fact that you converse with a respectful tone. Im just pissed at some of the responses I get.

Just because the 4 bangers are built to rev (and Im ensuring that it will rev clean and safe to 9k with tomei cams, springs and retainers all built by Magnus who has an outstanding rep), well, that doesn't mean that I have to sacrifice everything for the sake of top end. Im looking to squeeze the max out of a small frame turbo. After riding in GT35r cars, I find that it takes forever to spool, when it does, its a blast to 8-9k and its over. Its great when you're dragging or racing, but Im trying to figure out the best all around setup. I think a 2.4L and a 3037 would spool incredibly and provied adequate power....450 would be nice. If there was a turbo I thought was capable of that extra 50, its the FP3065 or the GT3040 as some call it. Until now, the 3040 was off limits because it was an HKS unit and costs 3600 bucks.

See my point? Options are out there, and Im not interested in doing what everyone else does, buying an AMS turbo kit and a 2.3L stroker kit, making 600 horses at nutso revs and calling it a day.

A LOT of power and a LOT of USEABLE power are two different things. By low end torque, I want to try and preserve anything I can that makes a stock evo fun to drive, a quick spool....and with a 2.4 with a 3037 or hopefully a 3040, will yield a car thats crazy. Ya with me?

I have looked at Marcos car at Magnus, he runs a 2.4L 4G94 block, 4G63 head, god knows what cams, etc etc. The shortblock I've decided to have built will yield a super durable, high revving motor capable of spinning a big turbo quickly. Its got a fantastic rod ratio and plenty of push. Anything Im forgetting?

FRE, seriously, if it winds up where a GT35R is necessary, Im ensuring that the manifold from Full Race Im gonna use will work with the GT35R. The kit I want from them is the GT35R kit, Im going to make sure that the FP3065 fits or have a friend machine an appropriate adapter on his CNC machine, so I have room to upgrade to a GT35r is, in fact, you're all right. LOL

Good talkin to you.