Dyno Tested Buschur Racing's 20g
looks like typical White Rabbit results...I don't understand why the 20g was hyped to be so much more "powerful" than the WR. 15whp gains on higher boost? Actually I think the WR might be outperforming it...
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Originally Posted by ruzs
That seems a bit low to me as far as gains are concerned. there is a loss of power and torque all the way up to 5.5k rpm. The los ranges form 25 to almost 50 hp. That is consierable on the street. The gains of 20 or so hp from 5.5k on may not corelate to a huge satisfaction. It may be better to invest a bit more in a 3071R kit. I know it is twice as much money, but it just seems that way to me. If it made 50 or 60 hp more on top, now that would be another story.
Sigfrid
Sigfrid
To those who say the gains aren't that great, I beg to differ. Here you have a bolt on turbo that spools a bit slower than stock.. and nets 20-30hp gains over an 05MR turbo. I would bet if you put this turbo up against a stock 03 Evo turbo you would see gains around 40hp up top.
Originally Posted by BadazzCR
The reason the tq is lower on the 20g was from the fact that the stock turbo was run to 28 psi tappering to 19-20psi, and the 20g only had to run 25psi in the middle and held 22-23psi through redline. IMHO the loss of TQ down low is not even noticed on the street, since most of the time your racing the rpms are above 5.5k where this turbo (20g) makes more power.
To those who say the gains aren't that great, I beg to differ. Here you have a bolt on turbo that spools a bit slower than stock.. and nets 20-30hp gains over an 05MR turbo. I would bet if you put this turbo up against a stock 03 Evo turbo you would see gains around 40hp up top.
To those who say the gains aren't that great, I beg to differ. Here you have a bolt on turbo that spools a bit slower than stock.. and nets 20-30hp gains over an 05MR turbo. I would bet if you put this turbo up against a stock 03 Evo turbo you would see gains around 40hp up top.
Why didnt you dyno th 20g @ a higher boost ? 28-30psi
results
Most people (or at least me) have already installed O2 housings, 10.5 hotsides and headers. to have to change injectors and the turbo to get another 20 hp for $ 1600 seems like a lot. I think I would be happy the first day and get used to it within a few weeks. I would then have to buy a kit to satisfy my thirst for power. I am simply looking for more then 20 hp, no matter where they are.
Originally Posted by BadazzCR
IMHO the loss of TQ down low is not even noticed on the street, since most of the time your racing the rpms are above 5.5k where this turbo (20g) makes more power.
At the drag strip, you are right...only the power made above 5500rpm is important. This is why the 20g has performed so well at the drag strip compared to stock turbos. On the other hand, the low-and-mid-range torque is EXTREMELY important for street, auto-x, and road course driving. Most of the time, we are BELOW 5500 when daily driving, and that low-end torque is the thing that gives us the ability to accelerate in a higher gear than is optimal without any sacrifice. A quick example would be my car tuned with an S-AFC vs when I added a flash. Everytime I dyno'd my car through my mod progressions, I was always making 20-25 less peak torque than peak hp. When I got a base flash in addition to my S-AFC, I no longer lost that torque due to the timing bottoming out, and it drastically changed the driveability of my car. It didn't change anything at the drag strip, because that's only 5500+rpm, but the 95% of my time that is spent daily driving was improved greatly. Likewise, this 20g appears as if it won't be quite as much fun or useful for daily driving, nor would it be ideal for autocrossing or road racing. At the drag strip or for highway pulls (not my preference), it will shine.
Originally Posted by MalibuJack
Doug, People just don't get it... Its as simple as that.. I prefer to keep my secret.. 
Originally Posted by Warrtalon
I don't have a problem with this turbo or the figures, and I think it would show even bigger gains when run at even higher boost, but I wanted to respond to this comment.
At the drag strip, you are right...only the power made above 5500rpm is important. This is why the 20g has performed so well at the drag strip compared to stock turbos. On the other hand, the low-and-mid-range torque is EXTREMELY important for street, auto-x, and road course driving. Most of the time, we are BELOW 5500 when daily driving, and that low-end torque is the thing that gives us the ability to accelerate in a higher gear than is optimal without any sacrifice. A quick example would be my car tuned with an S-AFC vs when I added a flash. Everytime I dyno'd my car through my mod progressions, I was always making 20-25 less peak torque than peak hp. When I got a base flash in addition to my S-AFC, I no longer lost that torque due to the timing bottoming out, and it drastically changed the driveability of my car. It didn't change anything at the drag strip, because that's only 5500+rpm, but the 95% of my time that is spent daily driving was improved greatly. Likewise, this 20g appears as if it won't be quite as much fun or useful for daily driving, nor would it be ideal for autocrossing or road racing. At the drag strip or for highway pulls (not my preference), it will shine.
At the drag strip, you are right...only the power made above 5500rpm is important. This is why the 20g has performed so well at the drag strip compared to stock turbos. On the other hand, the low-and-mid-range torque is EXTREMELY important for street, auto-x, and road course driving. Most of the time, we are BELOW 5500 when daily driving, and that low-end torque is the thing that gives us the ability to accelerate in a higher gear than is optimal without any sacrifice. A quick example would be my car tuned with an S-AFC vs when I added a flash. Everytime I dyno'd my car through my mod progressions, I was always making 20-25 less peak torque than peak hp. When I got a base flash in addition to my S-AFC, I no longer lost that torque due to the timing bottoming out, and it drastically changed the driveability of my car. It didn't change anything at the drag strip, because that's only 5500+rpm, but the 95% of my time that is spent daily driving was improved greatly. Likewise, this 20g appears as if it won't be quite as much fun or useful for daily driving, nor would it be ideal for autocrossing or road racing. At the drag strip or for highway pulls (not my preference), it will shine.
Originally Posted by Warrtalon
I don't have a problem with this turbo or the figures, and I think it would show even bigger gains when run at even higher boost, but I wanted to respond to this comment.
At the drag strip, you are right...only the power made above 5500rpm is important. This is why the 20g has performed so well at the drag strip compared to stock turbos. On the other hand, the low-and-mid-range torque is EXTREMELY important for street, auto-x, and road course driving. Most of the time, we are BELOW 5500 when daily driving, and that low-end torque is the thing that gives us the ability to accelerate in a higher gear than is optimal without any sacrifice. A quick example would be my car tuned with an S-AFC vs when I added a flash. Everytime I dyno'd my car through my mod progressions, I was always making 20-25 less peak torque than peak hp. When I got a base flash in addition to my S-AFC, I no longer lost that torque due to the timing bottoming out, and it drastically changed the driveability of my car. It didn't change anything at the drag strip, because that's only 5500+rpm, but the 95% of my time that is spent daily driving was improved greatly. Likewise, this 20g appears as if it won't be quite as much fun or useful for daily driving, nor would it be ideal for autocrossing or road racing. At the drag strip or for highway pulls (not my preference), it will shine.
At the drag strip, you are right...only the power made above 5500rpm is important. This is why the 20g has performed so well at the drag strip compared to stock turbos. On the other hand, the low-and-mid-range torque is EXTREMELY important for street, auto-x, and road course driving. Most of the time, we are BELOW 5500 when daily driving, and that low-end torque is the thing that gives us the ability to accelerate in a higher gear than is optimal without any sacrifice. A quick example would be my car tuned with an S-AFC vs when I added a flash. Everytime I dyno'd my car through my mod progressions, I was always making 20-25 less peak torque than peak hp. When I got a base flash in addition to my S-AFC, I no longer lost that torque due to the timing bottoming out, and it drastically changed the driveability of my car. It didn't change anything at the drag strip, because that's only 5500+rpm, but the 95% of my time that is spent daily driving was improved greatly. Likewise, this 20g appears as if it won't be quite as much fun or useful for daily driving, nor would it be ideal for autocrossing or road racing. At the drag strip or for highway pulls (not my preference), it will shine.
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Originally Posted by Warrtalon
I don't have a problem with this turbo or the figures, and I think it would show even bigger gains when run at even higher boost, but I wanted to respond to this comment.
At the drag strip, you are right...only the power made above 5500rpm is important. This is why the 20g has performed so well at the drag strip compared to stock turbos. On the other hand, the low-and-mid-range torque is EXTREMELY important for street, auto-x, and road course driving. Most of the time, we are BELOW 5500 when daily driving, and that low-end torque is the thing that gives us the ability to accelerate in a higher gear than is optimal without any sacrifice. A quick example would be my car tuned with an S-AFC vs when I added a flash. Everytime I dyno'd my car through my mod progressions, I was always making 20-25 less peak torque than peak hp. When I got a base flash in addition to my S-AFC, I no longer lost that torque due to the timing bottoming out, and it drastically changed the driveability of my car. It didn't change anything at the drag strip, because that's only 5500+rpm, but the 95% of my time that is spent daily driving was improved greatly. Likewise, this 20g appears as if it won't be quite as much fun or useful for daily driving, nor would it be ideal for autocrossing or road racing. At the drag strip or for highway pulls (not my preference), it will shine.
At the drag strip, you are right...only the power made above 5500rpm is important. This is why the 20g has performed so well at the drag strip compared to stock turbos. On the other hand, the low-and-mid-range torque is EXTREMELY important for street, auto-x, and road course driving. Most of the time, we are BELOW 5500 when daily driving, and that low-end torque is the thing that gives us the ability to accelerate in a higher gear than is optimal without any sacrifice. A quick example would be my car tuned with an S-AFC vs when I added a flash. Everytime I dyno'd my car through my mod progressions, I was always making 20-25 less peak torque than peak hp. When I got a base flash in addition to my S-AFC, I no longer lost that torque due to the timing bottoming out, and it drastically changed the driveability of my car. It didn't change anything at the drag strip, because that's only 5500+rpm, but the 95% of my time that is spent daily driving was improved greatly. Likewise, this 20g appears as if it won't be quite as much fun or useful for daily driving, nor would it be ideal for autocrossing or road racing. At the drag strip or for highway pulls (not my preference), it will shine.
Originally Posted by trinydex
why didn't you get injectors and tune for timing?
Originally Posted by BadazzCR
True... but with over 300+tq above 3600rpms... you really don't have any problems with lowend power. Secondly this car makes more lowend power than a mildly modded Evo. Like I said.. you really do not notice the little loss down low.
From what I see, the total area under the curve is greater with the stock turbo for both torque AND hp. Does this matter? I'm not sure, but that is what I see. Some it can be attributed to the fact that the pulls didn't start at the same RPM. This keeps the 20g curve lower than the 16g curve for a while at the beginning. It's just impossible to tell how much...
Originally Posted by trinydex
how come you didn't choose your secret to be the wr?
Additionally my article on the different turbos, I have another Evo available (actually 2) running WR turbos that I can use for some testing, but nobody had a 20G..
Comparing turbos with different boost level is comparing apple to orange.
At 22-23 psi, it is not even the sweet spot of the 20g turbo. On the other hand, 28 psi is way out of effective range of the stock turbo.
At 22-23 psi, it is not even the sweet spot of the 20g turbo. On the other hand, 28 psi is way out of effective range of the stock turbo.
IMo i'm not that impressed with it. I see what people are talking about as far as more area under the graph, more power up top etc... and I agree its a worth upgrade, BUT, its not worth over 1000$ to get there. it just isnt. the fastest 20g equipped car right now is a 2005 RS with a built bottom end, stage 3 head, 20g and AEM and it runs 11.3 with a 1.7 60ft. the traps are impressive, yes but 11.3 is attainable on the stock turbo. obviously not easy but is possible. give warrtalon another 80whp with cams, methanol, AEM and he'd do it. it just takes good driving. And i see what people mean about saying its a good turbo to still retain fast spool and good for autix, but if its losing 50 lbs of tq before 5000 then how good is it?? I mean I know most of time the car would be above 5000 rpm anyway but thats alot of power to lost down low to gain so little up top. I just think that if your going to go to a larger turbo you mine as well step it up to at least a 3076R, nothing smaller seems worth it. the 20g and WR would be good upgrades if they were like 500$ but it just doesnt seem worth anymore. THESE TURBOS REMIND ME OF THE T28 UPGRADE THAT CAME OUT FOR 95-99 DSM'S. YEA IT WAS BIGGER BUT THEY STARTED OUT AROUND 1000$, EVERYONE WHO GOT THEM ENDED UP GETTING BIGGER TURBOS ALMOST IMMEDIATELY BECAUSE IT WAS A WASTE.
those turbos went down to 650$ and still could barely sell.
I see the desire for a modest upgrade and a little more power but that 1200$ can be spent on other things to get that little more power.
Until someone makes like 450-460 whp on a dyno jet at 30 psi with this turbo I cant see the point. gaining 20whp is not worth spending over 1000$
at that point a person could buy a sheetmetal intake manifold and gain 20-30whp for 700$ or do the larger TB andport the inlet of the intake manifold for 350$ total and gain 10whp
or spend another couple hundred and get an AEM EMS which is usually good for 30 more whp then a flash, eliminate the MAF, get launch control, knock control, etc...
buy a nitrous single fogger wet kit for 600...
those turbos went down to 650$ and still could barely sell.
I see the desire for a modest upgrade and a little more power but that 1200$ can be spent on other things to get that little more power.
Until someone makes like 450-460 whp on a dyno jet at 30 psi with this turbo I cant see the point. gaining 20whp is not worth spending over 1000$
at that point a person could buy a sheetmetal intake manifold and gain 20-30whp for 700$ or do the larger TB andport the inlet of the intake manifold for 350$ total and gain 10whp
or spend another couple hundred and get an AEM EMS which is usually good for 30 more whp then a flash, eliminate the MAF, get launch control, knock control, etc...
buy a nitrous single fogger wet kit for 600...