Dyno Tested Buschur Racing's 20g
I already have a turbo that makes crazy high number at the last 2K RPM. I took it off. What Im looking for is something that makes a crazy TQ hump like the stocker does down low, and maybe 20-30WHP at the top.
I would like to see some trap speeds from this car !
Still no awnser on why no 30psi dyno run with the 20g ? !
What I hope this means is that my 11.7 will trun in to 11.3-11.5 @ the track with the 20g upgrade (about 40-50 more hp) AND still have a good power cruve .
Still no awnser on why no 30psi dyno run with the 20g ? !
What I hope this means is that my 11.7 will trun in to 11.3-11.5 @ the track with the 20g upgrade (about 40-50 more hp) AND still have a good power cruve .
LHB,
Very well put, my opinions exactly.
Take my brother's EVO for example. He owns my original EVO, the 2003.
Desciption of the car:
Stage 3 2 liter engine
Stage 3 head
Stages 1-4, with 280 cams, race FMIC.
AEM EMS
Our GT35R turbo kit, with a short runner header I built and HKS external wastegate.
Race fuel and 30 psi of boost, that's a flat 30 psi from the time it hits to 8500 rpm where he shifts.
A few weeks ago he ran the car at the NOPI race. He was unable to launch the car, it either bogged or spun. His best time at that race was 11.00 at 135 mph. Again, to his credit the car would not launch.
To put this into perspective (this is all I am trying to do). My RS with the 20G and 20 psi ran 11.4 at 121 mph, also on race gas.
The MPH difference is huge, the ET is not though.
Power on my 20G that day would have been in the 320 whp range while his car was about 510 whp.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
Very well put, my opinions exactly.
Take my brother's EVO for example. He owns my original EVO, the 2003.
Desciption of the car:
Stage 3 2 liter engine
Stage 3 head
Stages 1-4, with 280 cams, race FMIC.
AEM EMS
Our GT35R turbo kit, with a short runner header I built and HKS external wastegate.
Race fuel and 30 psi of boost, that's a flat 30 psi from the time it hits to 8500 rpm where he shifts.
A few weeks ago he ran the car at the NOPI race. He was unable to launch the car, it either bogged or spun. His best time at that race was 11.00 at 135 mph. Again, to his credit the car would not launch.
To put this into perspective (this is all I am trying to do). My RS with the 20G and 20 psi ran 11.4 at 121 mph, also on race gas.
The MPH difference is huge, the ET is not though.
Power on my 20G that day would have been in the 320 whp range while his car was about 510 whp.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
Originally Posted by MalibuJack
LHB.. I've said the exact same thing in several threads, it seems that something is always lost in translation when everyone wants high peak numbers.. There are cars that are very quick using small turbos and under 400whp.. Its all about the powerband as we've all said many times..
I've said this before, what good is a big ******* if its flaccid until your almost done?
I've said this before, what good is a big ******* if its flaccid until your almost done?
Originally Posted by davidbuschur
LHB,
Very well put, my opinions exactly.
Take my brother's EVO for example. He owns my original EVO, the 2003.
Desciption of the car:
Stage 3 2 liter engine
Stage 3 head
Stages 1-4, with 280 cams, race FMIC.
AEM EMS
Our GT35R turbo kit, with a short runner header I built and HKS external wastegate.
Race fuel and 30 psi of boost, that's a flat 30 psi from the time it hits to 8500 rpm where he shifts.
A few weeks ago he ran the car at the NOPI race. He was unable to launch the car, it either bogged or spun. His best time at that race was 11.00 at 135 mph. Again, to his credit the car would not launch.
To put this into perspective (this is all I am trying to do). My RS with the 20G and 20 psi ran 11.4 at 121 mph, also on race gas.
The MPH difference is huge, the ET is not though.
Power on my 20G that day would have been in the 320 whp range while his car was about 510 whp.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
Very well put, my opinions exactly.
Take my brother's EVO for example. He owns my original EVO, the 2003.
Desciption of the car:
Stage 3 2 liter engine
Stage 3 head
Stages 1-4, with 280 cams, race FMIC.
AEM EMS
Our GT35R turbo kit, with a short runner header I built and HKS external wastegate.
Race fuel and 30 psi of boost, that's a flat 30 psi from the time it hits to 8500 rpm where he shifts.
A few weeks ago he ran the car at the NOPI race. He was unable to launch the car, it either bogged or spun. His best time at that race was 11.00 at 135 mph. Again, to his credit the car would not launch.
To put this into perspective (this is all I am trying to do). My RS with the 20G and 20 psi ran 11.4 at 121 mph, also on race gas.
The MPH difference is huge, the ET is not though.
Power on my 20G that day would have been in the 320 whp range while his car was about 510 whp.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
I'd like to have a turbo that would excel greatly on a street car that usually goes from like a 2nd gear roll or something. I suppose thats a tricky thing to make though. Which leads us right back to our current situation
Originally Posted by ExViTermini
I'd like to have a turbo that would excel greatly on a street car that usually goes from like a 2nd gear roll or something. I suppose thats a tricky thing to make though. Which leads us right back to our current situation
Sure, the big turbo car can beat you in a high speed roll, but the typical GT35R equipped car has to live with a narrow 2500rpm powerband, much more shifting in everyday driving, and reduced powertrain/drivetrain reliabilty - not ideal for a street driven car.
Its hard to pick the right turbo, because you have to sacrifice bottom end to gain top end. Its all about decisions at the end.
Last edited by VTECH8TR; Oct 27, 2005 at 12:14 PM.
Originally Posted by ExViTermini
If you guys were to go from a 3rd gear roll on the interstate though..he would likely annihilate you. So in effect to me this turbo seems like an awesome low end and drag turbo, but a larger one would be better for going from a roll. On a street car I don't often see people racing from a dead stop.
I currently live with a setup that gives me full boost at about 4000 rpms and it keeps me busier shifting when I'm cruising on the highway, since I need to downshift anytime I want to pass. On the flipside, it is nice not to be in boost when cruising in 5th, though. I basically need to keep my revs about 500 rpms higher than I used to, which means that you'll hear me cruising down the block at 3500 rpms instead of 3000 with the stock setup.
l8r)
Uh, yep, the GT35R would kill my car from a roll, that was my point by stating the MPH of both cars. However if we both start at 55 mph in 5th gear I will be into the next state by the time he catches me.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
Newbie
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 51
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From: La Habra, California
Originally Posted by ExViTermini
If you guys were to go from a 3rd gear roll on the interstate though..he would likely annihilate you. So in effect to me this turbo seems like an awesome low end and drag turbo, but a larger one would be better for going from a roll. On a street car I don't often see people racing from a dead stop.
I'd like to have a turbo that would excel greatly on a street car that usually goes from like a 2nd gear roll or something. I suppose thats a tricky thing to make though. Which leads us right back to our current situation
I'd like to have a turbo that would excel greatly on a street car that usually goes from like a 2nd gear roll or something. I suppose thats a tricky thing to make though. Which leads us right back to our current situation
If you both are running 91-93 octane (no alky) , the 35R dyno's don't seem to look as good, as say... turning up the wick to 30psi (where they shine the brightest).
Granted the 35R will probably walk the 20r by a bit on the highway, but i don't think it's gonna be the massive kill you think.
But then that's all you have.. a highway killer. Put a long winding road, and you'll probably end up playing catchup, courtasy of a narrow powerband and mid-shift spool transition between gears. You'll catch up on the straights, but the 20g will keep pulling away through the corners (with everything else being equal. And NO a 2.4L for the 35R vs a 2.0L 20r is not "equal").
As mentioned MANY MANY time before, these turbos are not for everybody. These are really geared more for the daily driver/autocross crowd. The Drag/Highway kill crowd probably won't be statisfied by this.
Unfortunatly we can't get low spool and massive top end... unless we increase displacement..
or twincharge it
(but that's a different story)
While most of the pros and cons of the GT35R vs the WR/20G stated are valid, one of the main advantages I see with a GT type turbo is the ability to make more hp with a less aggressive tune.
The stockish turbos are no doubt capable of running 11's that's been proven, but how would that same tune react on the road course where sessions are more than 30 mins?
on the street, we are at the mercy of pump gas, and to get the stock turbo to shine ignition timing is what picks up horsepower when tuning. this timing increase and the combination of high exhaust pressure from running a small turbined turbo coupled with high IAT from running the compressor past its efficiency areas leads to higher probability of knock compared to a GT type turbo on a more conservative tune.
these factors are still present with the stockish turbo on the road course even though most people with common sense run 100 octane.
in a nutshell what im saying is that moving to a GT turbo is about more than just picking up hp.
I know this because i'm currently running a WR turbo and AEM EMS... and there really is a fine line between making the power i want and the knock limit of my available fuel.
I'd personally like to see a comparison between the WR/20G vs a proper 3071R.
The stockish turbos are no doubt capable of running 11's that's been proven, but how would that same tune react on the road course where sessions are more than 30 mins?
on the street, we are at the mercy of pump gas, and to get the stock turbo to shine ignition timing is what picks up horsepower when tuning. this timing increase and the combination of high exhaust pressure from running a small turbined turbo coupled with high IAT from running the compressor past its efficiency areas leads to higher probability of knock compared to a GT type turbo on a more conservative tune.
these factors are still present with the stockish turbo on the road course even though most people with common sense run 100 octane.
in a nutshell what im saying is that moving to a GT turbo is about more than just picking up hp.
I know this because i'm currently running a WR turbo and AEM EMS... and there really is a fine line between making the power i want and the knock limit of my available fuel.
I'd personally like to see a comparison between the WR/20G vs a proper 3071R.
but there's not gonna be a good comparison there because hte 3071 will basically trash it on the top end. the wr is good for fast spool up, fast as stock, faster than stock. to get a faster than stock spool on a 3071 you're lookin' at very very careful work and potentially unreliable other things like tubular header and you'll still never touch how fast the stock like turbos spool.
which is why in the end you have to find out what you intend the car for... i'm not sure i'd be able to live with a 3071 just because my stock turbo is laggy as it is. hwen i'm tearing through really tite areas i need the boost to be there for me, i need the power to come out of turns i need a lott quick stuff, to hit hte pedal and then wait for the sssssss to come is... less than acceptable. and i think the wr and such turbos are meant for people only like me.
which is why in the end you have to find out what you intend the car for... i'm not sure i'd be able to live with a 3071 just because my stock turbo is laggy as it is. hwen i'm tearing through really tite areas i need the boost to be there for me, i need the power to come out of turns i need a lott quick stuff, to hit hte pedal and then wait for the sssssss to come is... less than acceptable. and i think the wr and such turbos are meant for people only like me.
Actually, I think there is a general mis-conception about "fast" spool vs "early" spool.
In my experience (I run a 3071 on my car), the GT turbo spools noticeably faster and hits way harder than the stock turbo. Basically you hear the sss and at roughly the same time you get hit by a shovel (and it shovels well
). The only drawback to the 3071 vs stock is that it spools later, which means that you have to keep your revs up ... no being lazy and letting your revs drop under 4000 when you're trying to push the envelope. In my case it's even less noticeable, since on a built 2.0L I can rev higher, which on my current setup gives me a usable powerband of 4000-8500 rpm vs 3300 to 7500 rpm on the stock setup.
l8r)
In my experience (I run a 3071 on my car), the GT turbo spools noticeably faster and hits way harder than the stock turbo. Basically you hear the sss and at roughly the same time you get hit by a shovel (and it shovels well
). The only drawback to the 3071 vs stock is that it spools later, which means that you have to keep your revs up ... no being lazy and letting your revs drop under 4000 when you're trying to push the envelope. In my case it's even less noticeable, since on a built 2.0L I can rev higher, which on my current setup gives me a usable powerband of 4000-8500 rpm vs 3300 to 7500 rpm on the stock setup.l8r)