Who cares about dyno numbers. Does it surge on the street the same way that it does on the dyno? If not, then it sounds like you need to do your tuning on the street or on a dyno that loads the car comparably to the street.

I'm not trying to defend Buschur, as I'm sure he'll be on here to defend himself, but your post talks about the turbo misbehaving on the dyno but feeling great on the street, which makes me wonder if this is mostly a "dyno" problem.

 

Exactly.. if all you care about is peak numbers just slap on a bigass turbo. Buschur has done nothing to hide the fact that the first 20G's surge. That's why they are still working on this.. and the evo9 20g looks very promising.

 

What Dyno was that!!!

 

exactly....wait to see what the dyno results are for a evo9 20g turbo on a evo with average bolt-ons, (i.e. exhaust, intake, reflash, cams, pump gas) then see what the curve looks like...

i don't think we should judge it all based on the evo 8 20g when the evo 9 one hasn't been in any cars at all (apart from the buschur one).

 

Sux P.J. Ime thinking about a 3071 also. Full Race kit. Stephen at IA performance has a manifold in stock!!! Incredable. At least you have the Ecutek license. Next tune should be quite a bit cheaper. I think.

 

Precision, below is the post you made about the 20G. I have done nothing to hide the fact that is surges and we are working on/fixed the problem with the EVO9 turbo being built into a 20G. Also we have built a ported compressor cover for it that we are hoping will fix the surging with the normal EVO8 turbo. I put your post in quotes and my responses below each quote:

"First of all, I would like to thank Vivid Racing for letting us use their dyno for these past couple of days... I would also like to thank all of the guys from Precision Dyno as well... They are great guys and they KNOW how to properly tune a car, as well as good customer service skills too..."

**It is apparent you are saying everyone knows what they are doing so you can blame everything on the turbo. Vivid, I am pretty sure has the exact dyno we do. I also think I spoke with them and they have their's set up just like mine, so what I am trying to say, if memory serves me correctly it is going to read the same numbers as our dyno.

"Now on to the review... First of all, I have to say I am very dissapointed with the results of the TURBO, I am extremely pleased with my custom tune... My hp and torque curves are good, and the car does feel extremely fast... But on the dyno, you can tell how bad this turbo surges and robs power... Time after time, at 6000rpm, the turbo would surge and almost flatten out..."

**So, your HP and torque curves are good and it feels extremely fast. That's good. As I have stated hundreds of times, the 20G surges. I am lost, first you say the power and torque curves are good BUT on the dyno it robs power. I am lost.

" My boost hits 1.8bar and drops to 1.4-1.5... From everything I have read, the stock turbo can do that just fine... "

**I looked at your signature and see what you have. You did not mention though if you had the high boost actuator on the turbo. I have made it well known that even the stock turbo will blow open the wastegate at high boost. Without a stiffer/high boost actuator this happens. Do you have one? Also, check my last thread of even the 20g-9 (EVO9 style) the boost you are complaining about is exactly what I SAY it will do. You hit a max of 26 psi and it fell to 20 psi. In my last testing I hit 25 psi and fell to 17 psi. These are things I make very public. I am lost to your compaints. Try the high boost actuator and the turbo will hold more boost for a longer time. I do not however fell it will hold 26 to redline and have never advertised that it would.

"spent 4 hours on the dyno cranking away, but couldt get it to stop surging... After all the time spent, I put down 335hp and 300torque... "

**I would like to know what the car made on the stock turbo on the same dyno, same fuel and same boost levels before the 20G. Then we can have a comparison. As you said the HP/torque curves are good and the car feels fast. Something else. I just dyno'd my car which has A LOT more mods on it than your car does. Your car is very very mild compared to mine. My car only put down 334/346 on a dyno that reads the same as the one you used. That was hitting 25 psi and falling to 17 psi, on straight 94 octane. My engine is built, head is ported, AEM EMS, 280 cams, 880 cc injectors, our race FMIC etc. It seems to me as your car is actually doing EXACTLY what I have claimed.

I think you were honestly looking for Dynojet numbers and got real MD AWD numbers from the car. Maybe you are disapointed for no reason actually? I know the surge sucks and I not only made it public but also haven't stopped trying to remedy it.

All I am asking is before this great turbo comes under attack, compare it to what your stock turbos made with the same set-ups.

"Im going to continue to play with it to see if it can remedy the problem but I dont think ill have any luck... Everything considered, I feel like I wasted $1350 on a mod that is no better than my stock turbo... Ill have an update and ill scan my dyno sheet for everyone later..."

**To say it is no better than stock we need some numbers to compare it to stock. Did you try backing off the pressure on your BOV?
__________________
"Mods:
Defi BF Gauges // Perrin Downpipe // Perrin Cat-Delete // Perrin Cat-Back // Hallman MBC // Buschur Intake // Walbro 255 // HKS 264 Cams // Precision Dyno Tuned // Tein S-tech // Greddy Type-S // Logic Upper and Lower IC Piping // ACT Clutch w/ Pro-Street Flywheel // Seibon CF Hood // 20g TME // Buschur FMIC // Alcohol Injection"

**Compare your list of mods with what is on my car and you will actually see how freaking powerful/fast your car is compared to mine. Hell I am jealous you made that much power with the parts you have!!

Give me a break, I think the turbo has delivered even more than I have advertised. I hope after reviewing my responses you guys do too. Also, Precision, don't take my response as some sort of attack. I am only pointing out facts. I don't want you un-happy and I think if you look at what I wrote you will see the 20G has done for you exactly what I said it would. Makes good power curves and the car is fast. Boost is exactly what I have stated plenty of times with a stock actuator and the turbo does surge. I have been honest and you have gotten great power.

David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com

 

creamo,

If you have a 1,000 rpm difference in spool up with the 20G you have something wrong. The actuator is too loose or you have a boost leak. It is barely noticable, no way is everything right and it is 1,000 rpm.

The power you are making is 368/359, that is high as hell. Is that on pump gas? Has the car been tuned for the 20G? From Al's post the numbers he wrote and your location I am assuming he tuned the car? If so he said the car is very fast and the numbers/curve was outstanding?

What did your car make on the stock turbo, same fuel and on the same dyno?

Love sure turns to hate quickly around here. I am freaking lost.

David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com

 

So true Dave. There are so many bandwagons on this forum, it's almost useless to come on here anymore.

 

Please post up your dynograph of the STOCK turbo and then of the 20G, i would surely love to see this so called 1000 rpm loss of spoolup you are claiming.

 

Jeez Dave, the kid was just expressing his dissapointament. I agree, you have been "out in the open" about all this, but he is just dissapointed.........Nobody here is attacking your products, hell, i have over $1500 of stuff from you. And ime not happy with all of it, but it does what its supposed to and i leave it at that.........

 

wait so your dissapointed in your car feeling fast?

 

So someone buys a product that has all the info out in the open about it, knows what they are buying, but then is dissapointed in the performance?

BR says they have a surge problem, you buy the turbo anyway knowing full well it surges, then complain about the surge on the internet? Why would you assume it woudn't surge on your car, but does on the test car? I know Dave has mentioned compressor surge in just about every single 20G thread he has posted.

That seems to me like just a bad buying decision and unrealistic ecpectations.

You probobly should have waited to buy the turbo AFTER BR solved the surge issues.

 

Man, i dont know whats worse. The people who complain about a purchase, or the vendors who berate and attack trying to defend their products. If you cant take the heat of the internet, then stay off it. You vendors know how it is and how it will ALWAYS be, so quit fueling it and just let people say what they say and it will all fade away.......l.

 

Good points

Based upon my personal experience with the 20G - I have found it to be the ultimate street turbo I have tested to date on the Evo 8

it is regratable that the gentlemen here are not experiencing the full potential of that turbo

As david has suggested there may be some mechanical issues or tuning related configuration which are limiting the power potential in these two cars

I am comming to Pheonix in two weeks and I am renting the same Dyno at Vivid Racing

I will provide a free dyno sesssion, diagnostics and re-tuning as needed to anyone with a Buschur 20G who is having a problem.

I am sure that if the cars are properly wrenched and set up you will really feel significant gains from the 20G. I have found it to be a great turbo. In fact, over the past decade the DSM community has found it to be agreat turbo also.

 

This is America, he has the right to feel any way he wants, even if its wrong.

Broken record. We ALL KNOW THIS, and he STILL has the right to feel/think the way he wants. You are a broken record. Why not try to be proactive with him and not keep putting nails in the coffin......that is what good vendors do.

Maybe, possibly, probably?? But it was his money to spend. So rub it in his face some more.


Another worthless reply to a thread going no where. So fan the flames some more DSM.....
God, just let it go. Or reply with suggestions and reasoning.......