I don't think it's about people choosing sides. It has more to do with Mr. Buschur saying things about other peoples testing methods and coming off a little strong with the opinions and trash talking. He was very quick to say what was wrong with their information and how he would conduct a test properly. Everything that Mr. Buschur stated about applying "the proper method of conducting a FMIC test", did NOT happen. From the information Mr. Buschur posted, I think its pretty clear one test is NO better than the other. On one hand you have Nisei with below ambient temps and back-to-back testing for some reference to compare. On the other hand you have Buschur with only 1 run with 1 product and a bunch of hand written notes.

I actually spoke to Nisei today and they had mentioned a few things to me regarding this thread. First, they made it very clear to me they never said their standard core was better than the Buschur "RACE". The comparison was addressed regarding the "DELUXE" FMIC. They also told me there were several different versions of the "DELUXE" core and the "pressure drop" Mr. Buschur was promoting on this thread was not accurate. The updated "DELUXE" has a significant amount of increased pressure drop across the core over the one tested by Nisei. They assured me that shortly all this information will be made public since they've recently received their newer version of the "DELUXE" core.

For those of you who don't know which "DELUXE" you have here is a link I was directed to:

http://www.nisei-evo.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31

The last thing I asked about was the Nisei "COMPETITION" core. Nisei mentioned the test Mr. Buschur conducted should be matched with another RACE core, NOT a STREET FMIC and when the "COMPETITION" core is released it will speak for itself.

I must say it was a very interesting and well worth the call. Can't wait to see how well their "COMPETITION" FMIC will perform.

 

that should be something special

 

So.....basically this whole thread comes down to is this:

Buschur Racing Race FMIC vs. Nisei Standard FMIC

Max HP 374 Max HP 369
Max TQ 372 Max TQ 371
Max Boost 31.07 psi Max Boost 30.36 psi


So Buschur made 5hp & 1tq on there RACE IC over Nisei's STANDARD IC on 0.71psi more boost.

It's a wash!

 

It’s people like you who give evom a bad name. You come into a thread wanting to talk about something that has already been beat to death and brag about some IQ score you got from the internet, how fast your car is, how much you know about physics, and just about how awesome you are overall.

There was about a 20% difference with the ambient temperatures between the days I did my own tests. That means that one day was 9 degrees warmer/colder than the other one. Now I hope you’re not suggesting when you say

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrinaBabe

With a 20% difference (A difference which isnt even a POSSIBLE true temp), its quite obvious the test was bunk.

that it is impossible for the temperature to fluctuate on a day-to-day basis. Moreover, my temp sensor is FINE. I can put another temp sensor or thermometer next to my sensor with the core off and they will yield the same value. The fact that its position (along with a good core) can give sub ambient temps has already been explained. Just read the whole thread and learn something. And by the way, Gödel is a name Mr. 147.

 

I am taking my car to a Dyno probably this weekend. I purchased a Nisei Intecooler and I would like to post the power gains(if any) on my setup.

If you have the time to wait I will definately post my results shortly and off course I will be very neutral on my feedback.

I think they are both a heck of a intercooler, you can't go wrong with either or.

 

I never said what my IQ score was to start with... perhaps you should go back and read the thread and actually learn something (Works both ways). Now yes, it is POSSIBLE for the temp to be under ambient... but it isnt. Didnt want to burst your bubble there but its not. So with one test being off by 20% which made it well UNDER ambient it is obviously apparent that the test was bunk. Very simple, your intake temps were NOT lower than ambient. So what does that tell us? It was obviously reading INCREDIBLY low (Especially the second run). Perhaps the wiring has a grounding issue or something losing voltage, which could mean that 25 degrees should be doubled and 31 degrees should be doubled.... which would make a little more sense in the temp increase but who knows... thats the whole point. No one knows because the test was bunk.

I am not what most people could call a blind follower of Buschur parts. I have a few of his as well as a few of damn near every vendor. I buy what seems to be a decent product for a decent price. In this case, I am not trying to say his is the best or even better than the Nis core. I am saying that your test was not accurate and people should not try to base thier purchase on your test alone (And many EvoM readers somehow think everything they read on here is absolute truth). Thats all. Like many have already said, this discussion is worthless. You can not seem to accept the fact that your sensor is NOT reading properly.... It plain as day ISNT. I dont care what damned scientist you try to use.... I have been doing this for a while now (ALOT longer than you).... my intake temps are NEVER under ambient. Other cars I have tuned, driven or built. NEVER under ambient. You are incorrect and your test was junk.

People should always buy what they feel is better and not read morons posting about how thier IC makes the intake temps LOWER than ambient

 

From page 26, AF Performance, sorry you thought I was getting touchy, as I wasn't. I was simply pointing out that what you wrote about your intercooler wasn't correct. It is not the largest FMIC that will fit and use stock plumbing. We are all vendors here and you surely have the right to post about your product. It would just be appreciated by everyone if you made sure what you were posting was correct.

David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com

 

str8ryda,

For you and everyone else to know, the "new" deluxe FMIC that Nisei has posted on their website of ours now is NOT our new FMIC. As a matter of fact that is the same "kit" as it has always been. Nisei is still not pointing out the fact that their intercooler has more pressure drop than any of our cores. They also failed to measure the very small factory turbo outlet elbow, only showed the end of it which is larger. Their testing and promotional efforts both stink. They tell you what they want to tell you and leave out the rest. Give me one of those aluminum intercooler pipes from their kit and a couple of witnesses here and the shop and I will show you why we don't use aluminum for intercooler plumbing. Heat and durability would be the two quick tests I can show.

For the rest of you guys that keep talking about their Niseis "Standard" core and how we used our race core when we tested. ARE YOU COMPLETELY BLIND AND STUPID? They only have ONE intercooler. Just so happens they built one larger than everyone else had released at that time. They continue to test against everyone's much smaller FMIC. They just did this to AMS too. AMS has a large race style FMIC like ours too. CAN'T YOU GUYS NOTICE A PATTERN??? They take their ONLY Intercooler and test it against the TWO shops that have done the most smaller kits. Wait until AMS makes posts, it's coming. They have stayed out of this BS up until this point but now they are fired up. I got a call from them yesterday.


bbybruno,

You have proven 100's of times on EVOM you don't like me. Well I don't like you either as you are just blind. The testing you posted above is only half the story. Me pointing out the rest won't do you any good as you can't see/read it. I will anyway. Yes our FMIC made 5whp more and 1 ft lb of torque more. Yes it was with an increase of .7 psi of boost. Had I wanted to cover up that .7 psi of boost I could have. That was THE POINT of it. Less pressure drop makes MORE HP. Increasing the boost like that HAS NO NEGATIVE effects on anything, it is FREE with NO increased knock activity. You, bbar and str8ryda also are blind to the temps increases. The Nisei picked up 13 degrees F from 1st-4th gear and this was starting with a negative number of -4 (which again is BS). Who knows what the real numbers would be but we will use their latest test of +13F on the AMS comparison. Our intercooler on a 1st -4th gear test at 25 psi on the STOCK turbo was only 2 degrees. Why is it the 3 of you can't see that?

Wow, there is no waking you guys up. Why is it my facts suck and theirs are so great when anyone that is actually knowledgable in this industry thinks their testing is somehow messed up?

David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com

 

Ok, I'll say this again. You can't compare outlet temps from two different tests with two different cars and two different ambient air temps. Your "fair" dyno tests showed that the Nisei and Race both cooled equally well. I don't know why you keep trying to pull numbers from different tests and compare them!

And another thing. I'm really tired of the complaints about Nisei testing competitor's smaller cores. I remembered a previous thread from back in August that has now been locked where David Buschur and Nisei fanboys got into it about FMIC's. Here is the post by David from back in August.

HELLO? So before you said your Standard AND Deluxe would match up against the Nisei core and once test results came out, you change your story and say it's not fair? Seriously, I am so sick of the accusations of foul play, big claims with no real numbers to back them up, and overall bashing that goes on on this website. I'm sure there's a slander lawsuit in here somewhere.

 

Your funny. Let me correct you, I have proven 100's of times that I dont like your exhaust. You take things to personal. I am however going to be purchasing your evo9 20g.

And I do have perfect vision with my contacts in, but maybe I was reading this thread without them.

Anyway you need to relax, I was just stating the facts in my last post.

 

Originally Posted by davidbuschur
As far as testing against ours, I will use whatever intercooler of our 3 I have to to beat Nisei's numbers, end of story. My guess is our standard or Deluxe will make atleast the same gains and our race will flat out stomp it.



To me this whole test of yours is null and void. You used your race ic against nisei's standard which you thought would have "stomped" it but it didn't.

Why don't you test your deluxe vs. nisei standard.

Then when they come out with their competition then you can test your race ic.

Fair testing huh?

 

What is your core size on that application?

 

David,

Almost every manufacturer out will point out the plus's on there product. That is part of the marketing. What good is a product if its own creator posts a doubt on the product???

AF-Performance

 

umm isn't the point of intercooler design a compromise between pressure drop/cooling effect/volume?
you effectively get more boost from less pressure drop. obviously you get cooling (hence denser) intake air with better cooling and too large a volume gives lag. the i/c has to match your turbo and engine. i guess that if you have a large turbo, a slightly larger pressure drop won't hurt that much but it might be important that the increased air flow is suficiently cooled.
so in a way, it's not entirely possible to say which one is better unless of course you dyno the car with one i/c and then another over several runs. Look at the numbers and also the lag...
You can get (virtually) zero pressure drop with no i/c at all. You can get minimum lag if you just pipe the turbo straight into the intake manifold and you can get the intake temp to as low as you like with miniscule flow channels and oodles of fins.
As I said sometime ago, I'm not on a side here. I just think it's a little simple minded to say that one's better cos it cools better or cos it has less pressure drop.

hang on, if you cool the air more, the does that not reduce its pressure? so if the temp of the air after the i/c is lower, then does that not reduce boost. and more importantly, does that not show up as more pressure loss? like assume pressure across the turbo is the same but after the cooler the pressure is lower thus press diff across the i/c appears to be greater. just thought of this one and haven't done the maths on it, but is it right? need to go to bed...

 

Exactly on point...