Blew engine today under extremely normal circumstances. not happy.EDITED
Originally Posted by gsnt
My mistake, I thought when you said "Turbo-XS intake" that you were refering to some kind of hard intake pipe, which can dramaticly throw off MAF readings and make Evos run very lean, especially at higher RPMs.
P.S. sorry about your ride!
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From: brewerton, ny(home of right coast tuners)
just spend the money in the beginning and get a wideband and you will atleast know whats going on with your engine at all times as far as running lean! its just a cheap way to be safe...
Originally Posted by smokedmustang
So do you reccomend NO aftermarket "smooth" intake from Turbo to MAF? Is it ok to use this pipe with a proper dyno tune? to level off the lean condition? thanks, and sorry for the "short" hijack.
P.S. sorry about your ride!
P.S. sorry about your ride!
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 105
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hi there.
i'm really sorry to hear about your catastrophe. i feel your pain!
got a question for you -- have you ever missed a shift and "zinged" the motor?
i roadrace a Honda in H1 with NASA, and that is the number one reason why we lose motors like your pics (thrown rods, spun bearings, etc). someone misses a shift and really zings the motor, and the rodbolts get stressed and stretched. sometime later (usually within a few race-hours on the motor), you either here the ticking and stop, or you don't hear the ticking and you get this:
i'm really sorry to hear about your catastrophe. i feel your pain!
got a question for you -- have you ever missed a shift and "zinged" the motor?
i roadrace a Honda in H1 with NASA, and that is the number one reason why we lose motors like your pics (thrown rods, spun bearings, etc). someone misses a shift and really zings the motor, and the rodbolts get stressed and stretched. sometime later (usually within a few race-hours on the motor), you either here the ticking and stop, or you don't hear the ticking and you get this:
Originally Posted by gsnt
Its perfectly fine to use a smooth intake, you just have to make sure your tune is adjusted to compensate for it. By switching from a stock intake to most smooth metal ones, its quite possible the car will run leaner without a re-tune.
i used mobil 1 ext. 10w30 in my 03 and am using it in my 06 BR350 IX(#005). i use it all year round and never heard anything bad about this oil, it exceeds all specs for evos.. i dont believe theres anything in the manual thats says use 5w30 in the winter either. i seriously doubt the oil had anything to do with your motor blowing, btw i.m sorry for you and your problem but all the speculation doesnt mean **** right now as its not gonna fix your car. and as far as your flash al doesnt tune that lean at 7k rpm,s. he goes for around 11.3- 11.5 which is where it should be and sometimes i,ve seen high tens a/f ratio which is fine. when you find out what really caused your problem let us know. good luck
Return it to stock and go to the dealership. Do not let anyone know where you take it cuz there are a lot of haters that will sell you out. Mitsu has gotten away with lots of broken evos not getting repaired. I hope they can fix yours to start making up.
its always bad too see this happen. sorry for the loss.
ive had my car dynoflashed about 1 1/2 years ago (18,000 odd miles) and not one problem. I have few mods: Intake, MBC and forge recirc BOV. I don't beat the **** out of my car, but on the other hand I do not baby it.
ive had my car dynoflashed about 1 1/2 years ago (18,000 odd miles) and not one problem. I have few mods: Intake, MBC and forge recirc BOV. I don't beat the **** out of my car, but on the other hand I do not baby it.
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From: akrun, ohio
Originally Posted by gsnt
You stated yourself that the car was running over 12:1 A/F ratio on a dyno. It will most likely run another .1-.2 leaner on the highway. Hard intake pipes have been PROVEN to make these cars run significantly leaner than the stock intake pipe. You guys are searching elsewhere when the problem is inherently clear.
Don't be so quick to place blame on Al's flash either. Mail-in flash tuning is somewhat risky anyway. Al has flashed enough cars to have a very good idea of how each one runs with certain modifications. He tends to heir toward the side of safety, which is a good and smart thing to do.
But......As we have found, and I'm sure Al will tell you the same, there are cars out there that just run differently for some reason. You can take 10 completly stock Evo IX's, dyno and flash every single one, and there will be one car that acts differently and will not take to timing and fuel changes like the rest will. Its very possible that your car is one of these. The problem could have been caused by the car itsself, or one of the parts on the car.
Did you let Al know that you dyno'd the car and it was getting lean up top? I'm sure he would have been happy to get that ecu back and make some changes to prevent this from happening. In my opinion the owner of every mail-in flash car should dyno the car before sending the ecu in so that the flash tuner can see the state of the current tune and dyno the car after the flash so that the flash tuner can verify that the changes he made are within a reasonable range.
I'm not ruling out any factory defects in the motor, but you did modify the car in a way that it runs more boost, different timing, and differnet a/f ratio. You will be absolutly wasting your time by even speaking to the dealer about warranty coverage. Someone mentioned The Magnuson-Moss Act earlier and how it helped someone. That will not help you in this case. You made modifications that directly affect the performance of the motor and warranty WILL be denied due to this fact, regardless if there was a problem in the motor due to a factory defect or not.
Don't be so quick to place blame on Al's flash either. Mail-in flash tuning is somewhat risky anyway. Al has flashed enough cars to have a very good idea of how each one runs with certain modifications. He tends to heir toward the side of safety, which is a good and smart thing to do.
But......As we have found, and I'm sure Al will tell you the same, there are cars out there that just run differently for some reason. You can take 10 completly stock Evo IX's, dyno and flash every single one, and there will be one car that acts differently and will not take to timing and fuel changes like the rest will. Its very possible that your car is one of these. The problem could have been caused by the car itsself, or one of the parts on the car.
Did you let Al know that you dyno'd the car and it was getting lean up top? I'm sure he would have been happy to get that ecu back and make some changes to prevent this from happening. In my opinion the owner of every mail-in flash car should dyno the car before sending the ecu in so that the flash tuner can see the state of the current tune and dyno the car after the flash so that the flash tuner can verify that the changes he made are within a reasonable range.
I'm not ruling out any factory defects in the motor, but you did modify the car in a way that it runs more boost, different timing, and differnet a/f ratio. You will be absolutly wasting your time by even speaking to the dealer about warranty coverage. Someone mentioned The Magnuson-Moss Act earlier and how it helped someone. That will not help you in this case. You made modifications that directly affect the performance of the motor and warranty WILL be denied due to this fact, regardless if there was a problem in the motor due to a factory defect or not.
these weak bearings are starting to worry me, does Clevite of Fed Mogul make Rod and Main bearings for the 4G63?
I'm starting to wonder how sturdy the stock rods are, would it better or safer to just run some Pauter rods on a 4G63. . .just random thoughts, since CLEARLY turning up the boost and messing with the afr's on SOME stock motors leads to some deleterious consequences. . .
It's a question of factory spec tolerances, and some Evo's are a little lower and can't tolerate the extra stress. . .
Good luck with the rebuild if that's what you decide, and obviously it isn't really fraud to put your car as close to stock as possible, it's common sense SIMPLY BECAUSE of the copious amount of shavings in the oil. . . I'm telling everyone get your oil analyzed here! so you have an IDEA of what's going on in your engine, whether there are more fine particles than SHOULD be. . .no wide-band is going to tell you that, the oil is the blood of the car, if you're pushing more boost and altering afrs, etc., CHECK your oil, GET oil pressure, a wideband, and boost gauge, and for christ's sakes, don't blame a flasher for the problem when it could've been prevented by a proper tune (which is your responsibility). . .
actually, I just found out that Pauter does make rods for our platform, $784 for a set of 4 rods that you know have rod bolts that can withstand some like 20kPSI!!!
Pauter Rods for 4G63
And it turns out vividracing.com sells Cosworth's full line of Rod and Main bearings, as well as a pretty expensive set of Rods. . . .good insurance on bearings that cost $50 (of course it'll cost an arm and a leg to get the engine blueprinted, but you know. . . .)
Cosworth Rod bearings, etc.
I'm starting to wonder how sturdy the stock rods are, would it better or safer to just run some Pauter rods on a 4G63. . .just random thoughts, since CLEARLY turning up the boost and messing with the afr's on SOME stock motors leads to some deleterious consequences. . .
It's a question of factory spec tolerances, and some Evo's are a little lower and can't tolerate the extra stress. . .
Good luck with the rebuild if that's what you decide, and obviously it isn't really fraud to put your car as close to stock as possible, it's common sense SIMPLY BECAUSE of the copious amount of shavings in the oil. . . I'm telling everyone get your oil analyzed here! so you have an IDEA of what's going on in your engine, whether there are more fine particles than SHOULD be. . .no wide-band is going to tell you that, the oil is the blood of the car, if you're pushing more boost and altering afrs, etc., CHECK your oil, GET oil pressure, a wideband, and boost gauge, and for christ's sakes, don't blame a flasher for the problem when it could've been prevented by a proper tune (which is your responsibility). . .
actually, I just found out that Pauter does make rods for our platform, $784 for a set of 4 rods that you know have rod bolts that can withstand some like 20kPSI!!!
Pauter Rods for 4G63
And it turns out vividracing.com sells Cosworth's full line of Rod and Main bearings, as well as a pretty expensive set of Rods. . . .good insurance on bearings that cost $50 (of course it'll cost an arm and a leg to get the engine blueprinted, but you know. . . .)
Cosworth Rod bearings, etc.
Last edited by shivaswrath; Mar 5, 2006 at 01:34 PM.
Originally Posted by GinuwineEvo8
When was the last time you changed your oil then? If theres 89127389127381793 oil shavings in there you should of noticed it when you changed your oil dont you think?
:B
:B
Originally Posted by d15b7
got a question for you -- have you ever missed a shift and "zinged" the motor?
Originally Posted by shivaswrath
and for christ's sakes, don't blame a flasher for the problem when it could've been prevented by a proper tune (which is your responsibility). . .
Well, here's the deal from where I'm sitting:
You modified your engine for more performance. This is a pay to play situation. If you can't afford to build another engine, you shouldn't do so much as an ECU reflash. These engines aren't balanced and assembled by hand, like a race engine would be. This being the case, there is a wide variance in assembly tolerances. Maybe the rod bolt wasn't torqued properly, maybe the rod bearing wasn't seated right, maybe you lost an injector, who knows?
Bottom line is, you modified the motor and it pretty much gave you the finger. To take it back to Mitsu and say that it was stock and shrug your shoulders is pretty much the definition of fraud. Whether you can get away with it or not is up to you, but it would be better, in my opinion, to get a built motor from a reputable shop, as you are just going to run into the same situation again.
As for the oil shavings "taking a while" and it being a prevalent condition, thus justifying your fraud, think again.
I lost the thrust bearing in my motor and shavings got everywhere (oil cooler lines, pan, head, everywhere) and this only took 500 miles on a brand new motor. It doesn't take much. I'm willing to bet some detonation stretched those rod bolts and beat up those bearings.
Good luck either way.
You modified your engine for more performance. This is a pay to play situation. If you can't afford to build another engine, you shouldn't do so much as an ECU reflash. These engines aren't balanced and assembled by hand, like a race engine would be. This being the case, there is a wide variance in assembly tolerances. Maybe the rod bolt wasn't torqued properly, maybe the rod bearing wasn't seated right, maybe you lost an injector, who knows?
Bottom line is, you modified the motor and it pretty much gave you the finger. To take it back to Mitsu and say that it was stock and shrug your shoulders is pretty much the definition of fraud. Whether you can get away with it or not is up to you, but it would be better, in my opinion, to get a built motor from a reputable shop, as you are just going to run into the same situation again.
As for the oil shavings "taking a while" and it being a prevalent condition, thus justifying your fraud, think again.
I lost the thrust bearing in my motor and shavings got everywhere (oil cooler lines, pan, head, everywhere) and this only took 500 miles on a brand new motor. It doesn't take much. I'm willing to bet some detonation stretched those rod bolts and beat up those bearings.
Good luck either way.
