I can't believe you don't recommend running the water lines to a GT series turbo. The oil restrictor moves very little oil when compared to the stock evo turbo.

 

I recommend watercooling the turbo for many applications. I also recommend not watercooling it for other applications. I have a picture of a turbine housing from a turbo that did not take very kindly to watercooling if you would like to see.

The oil restrictor doesnt "move" oil, while im quite sure you didnt mean to say that, the restrictor simply keeps oil pressure low... a good thing when dealing with a DBB center section

The only downside to not watercooling the center section is that you should let the car idle for 10-15 seconds after hard driving, or you could just use a turbo timer just like any other non-bb turbo. We have shut motors off many times with no watercooling and have yet to have a single turbo fail from lack of water.

 

What????? My down pipe fits quite well. I have the correct housing. The only trouble spot is it contacts the rear cross bar. No biggy, my Buschur did also. Ill just add spacers to the bar and lower it 1/2 inch. Again no biggy. There is a picture of it i posted. RRR

 

Geoff, Again the first statement was not a bash. A bash in unsubstanciated remarks. Its a fact. I did get some non related hardware. I never got the oil feed line and had to call and have it shipped. I never got the gold stickers and had to call and get it. The Socal guy got the wrong housing . I just read from another member he didnt get the heat shield. I got the wrong drain parts. BIG trend here. If i owned that company, i would check my quality controll. A kit goes together with nothing else needed. Parts is parts. Anyways. like i said earlier , the frustration of not getting my car up and running on the 12 hours i set aside on sunday is over. I will continue to tell people that i have the highest quality parts i could find, but have it installed by my shop, or any other with welding and machining capabilities. I would be more than happy to show you how to make your kit much more pleasant and logical to install by changing a few items. Ill take pictures and post them when they arrive. Good evening.........Ray

 

Full-Race Geoff,
I think I now understand your business philosophy: "The best defense is a good offense." Tuning Technologies in no way competes with you: They sell no turbo kit and are outside your direct market area. They never ordered from you and it was never their job to discern whether you screwed up and sent your customer a 2.75" or 3.0" 4 bolt turbine housing. The fact is that they have salvaged two or three of YOUR screw ups and have made good power for two of your customers, yet you come on here flaming them.

Here is a fact: Just about every experienced member on this forum knows that there is plenty of room for a fantastic aftermarket turbo kit to fit perfectly on the evo without having to use gold-***** Wonka stickers for heat protection, etc. AMS manages to do 9 second 1/4 mile passes in three different cars on their super easy fitting kit. Buschur's kit and Vishnu's kit also fit easily with no Yoga required.

Another fact: you provide no bracket/brace to support the weight of the turbo/manifold assembly. AMS kits and many other kits offered on this forum do.

Another fact: Your kits are super hard to install and uninstall. I have the AMS kit and when I took it off to get the manifold heat coated, it only took about an hour and a half tops. Same to put it back together. Please, please, please feel free to prove that your kit makes better power than the AMS kits.

Truth is they DON'T make better power than AMS, they are a major pain to install, have terrible quality control, can't run thick aftermarket radiators, cost more, and don't have a brace to support their weight.

 

He has done just about everything you can do in a Evo, in fact he has done Cams and clutch on my MR. This guys(Ray) not only is very knowleadble but also has tons of experience by seniority and by practice, additionally he has all the expensive tools you can get.

If he is mentioning that he is having trouble installing it that means that he already tried to solve some issues but he is still encountering even more obstacles.

Good luck Ray!

Carlos

 

Full-racegeoff,


First of all we are lucky that your customer has extensive knowledge installing not only oe turbos but also Turbokits so that play on his favor.

If you guys are selling a turbokit in the market that cost a few thousand dollar and that involves major engineering issues you guys should work these issues much better.

The ideal customer that spends that kind of money expect a throuble free and hassle free installation, that means everything should fit properly.

On the other hand you guys should be informing the customer ahead of time either by phone, website or e-mail that your turbokits requires some estructural modifications.

Not everyone is skilled like Ray(your customer), taking this in consideration the average customer could encounter even more technical difficulties.

Botton line, you guys need to improve the small bit and pieces design to achieve a 100% hassle free installation.

my .2c

Carlos

 

http://www.socalevo.net/index.php?op...&topic=19552.0

 

i think the problem is some peeps don't buy the whole kit. they buy the turbo from somewhere cheaper and piece it together(this is what happened in the socalevo.net forum).

the next problem is some vendors buy the kit minus the turbo and fittings and sell them to you resulting in installation frustration! if they don't supply you with the correct turbine housing and fittings your screwed.

i don't know about other turbo kits, but you do have to remove the radiator. this is a good idea anyway because it's easy to put a hole in your factory radiator$$$$. btw, i can get my fullrace manifold off in about 40minutes.

this turbo kit has made the most power of all the turbo kits. just ask Buschur!

most of the turbo kits out there deliver the goods, but some will deliver more through downpipe and manifold design. there is not a kit out there that has a better downpipe then the fullrace kit.

the downpipe does come close to a/c compressor, but so what! the thin wall down pipe puts out way less heat then the factory o2 housing. i couldn't even get my hand within a couple inches of the factory manifold and o2 housing after a drive. with the fullrace or any other turbo kit the temps are alot lower in this area. this downpipe is not a big deal, and maintains 3 inch diameter out of the turbo.

the manifold doesn't need a support. I have never heard of a single failure with cracking in the honda camp. those guys hang 30 pound. gt42r's off of them, launching at the strip at 8k rpm with wheel hop and the mani still holds on.

this is my opinion and experience.

 

Oh boy, this is why i hate coming on this forum, people like you.

if anyone has seen a lot of turbo kits, it would be me. now, im more of a honda guy, but ive seen my fair share of evos, and just about every other turbo car there is now days. hell in my day ive installed dozens, and have been around tuning literally hundreds of turbo setups from hondas, evos, supras, 350z's, srt4's etc etc.

Lets talk from an engineering standpoint. which may be hard because after reading so many posts on this forum, there are many people who have no clue about automotive engineering.

Your FACT about not bracing sure is true. Full-Race does not use braces, others do. Do you know why? why dont you compare the welding procedure, the material used, the thickness, etc etc.

Should we even talk about the manifold design? wastegate placement on the ams kit is well rather wack. why do u think people have boost creep issues. and the rerouting of the dump in that area is not to my liking either.

Nothing against any company who has x turbo kits, its sad that you come on here and try to compare an AMS kit vs a full-race kit. yes AMS has fast cars, cheers to them, extremely impressive. but i dont think you want to compare kits based on ease of installation.

then you sit there and say, oh the full-race kit is too hard to install. well to someone who is used to putting on intakes and bolting on exhaust, Ok, you're right.

This isnt a beginner kit. You will learn in any hardcore modification project, there will always be advantages and disadvantages.

ok, so what if it takes a little longer to install it, are you going to be taking it off and on every weekend? no. once its on there, if you did your job right, u wont have to take it off for a very long time.

Further, every car's setup is completely different. everyone runs different components. Geoff could never keep up with the million different combinations if x part works or fits right...

The full-race kit has the hardcore enthusiast in mind that does what it takes to have the best quality, best performing equipment on the market.

 

This maybe true.. I hope whichever vendor sold rraulston the kit would come forward and chime in. Was this a complete kit from Full Race, or was it from a X Vendor who piece together their own GT turbo kit?


The kit was out a year ago already. The kit itself does not have issues. The issues could came from vendors who buy full race manifold/downpipe alone and piece their own kit GT turbokits. (i.e use their own oil/coolant lines, hardwares, bolts, gaskets etc). Don't jump on the conclusion yet. This type of incidents happened on WRX/STi GT-turbo kits before too.

 

I'll take one of your kits!!
Well when I bought my Magnus mani no one told me I would need a new upper IC pipe and the oil dipstick needed tweeking. TT installed it and it was a pain in the a**.

It boils down to communication between the vendor and the customer on what mods are already done and if things will need to be tweeked. I am sure rraulston will be happy when it is finished.

This thread should be locked. As it has turned into a trash Full race thread.I like their kit and would put one on my car anyday (even if it needed to be tweeked) .Although I would ask many questions on fitment with other mods I have that may change fitment from the origional design of the mani or DP/dump tube ect..

I like many kits out there and most seem to perform well. As long as the customer is happy in the end is all that matters with the least inconveinence.

I can't spell, oh well my 2 cents.

Geoff your parts are top notch!!!

Ps- if they notified FR Iam sure they would have addressed the issue or issues,period. In this case they did not notify FR and took matters in their own hands.

 

I gave my brand new MR to Geoff so he could build the prototype for the FR GT kit. If i didn't have full confidence in the products in terms of quality and performance, I would not have driven 2000 miles round trip to do so.

I finally saved up enough money to put on one of these kits myself, and I can't wait until it comes in on April, so I can install it.

When I went to hawaii over the weekend to tune a customers car, I got to examine some of these clearance issues for myself. There was plenty of room between the S compressor housing on the 35R and the wastegate didn't rub anything either.

The engine doesn't move front to back, it rotates on an axis, and this is why the turbo will never run into the radiator provided its a PWR or stock.

 

i'm running the pwr radiator and i have a little over 1/2 gap. the stocker radiator will give you about 5/8's gap. my kit has never bumped the radiator.

 

In terms of what happened at socalevo, I need to clear some things up as I know for a fact what happened for the most part in three situations, as I am the one who sold them their parts in the classifieds last year.

The first manifold, was originally meant for my car. I was going to run it with a 3071, and around that time the WR appeared. The numbers from Switzer Performance made me consider trying the WR, so I sold the manifold in the classifieds. The person whom I sold it to, also asked me if i could get him a 30R with ported compressor housing and a 44mm wastegate, so I did. At that time, I had no idea that the GT turbine housing did not fit the FR dp, but that is irrelevant as he said he would get his own fabbed up by someone local.

I ordered a second manifold, 44mm wastegate, turbo, and dp when I met someone at a local meet who said they wanted it. He had paid me in cash for a AEM EMS, so I knew he was serious. Unfortunately, he had run into some family responsibilities and could not pay for the items which I had already fronted the money for. So when the parts came in, I posted it in the socal classifieds. When the person who bought it recieved everything he told me that the GT turbine housing didn't match the FR dp, so I had him send me the exhaust housing back, and I bought him one from FR that fit out of my pocket.

Around this same time, another guy whom was interested in the same ad said he finally had the money for it. Unfortunately, it had already sold, but told him I could get him the same items for the same price, and he agreed.

I told him that there would be a 4 to 5 week wait on the parts since they are hand made. FR was behind schedule for about 2 weeks, and this made him extremely upset. But in the end FR came thru. To try and make it up to him, I gave him a brand new EVO shirt I had gotten in Japan for free, in hopes to make him happy.

Months later, when he went to install his parts he bought from me in the classifieds, he had problems (both personal and installation related) with the shop that was doing his install and all hell broke loose on socalevo regarding that shop and the FR stuff.

This stuff was was all a personal transaction before I started working at Speed Element, and the stuff I sold was a DIY and was never misconstrued as anything else on my part. DIY is a very popular way of buying FR products as it allows you to make a kit using FR components at a fraction of the price, provided you know how to put everything together.

As an fellow enthusiast selling his extra stuff on the classified forums, I did my best to accomidate those who bought stuff from me. I gave these guys a great deal (below market value) on the turbo, manifold, dp, and wastegate. I had no idea the trouble and frustration this would cause.

It is out of my control if the parties they pick to install their parts and help them complete their kit lack the tools and knowledge to make this stuff work. As there are plently of successful installations of this kit from other people.

But I do feel all your frustrations, and I can understand why you are looking for someone to blame.

Modifying cars isn't an easy hobby like collecting gold fish or stamps. It is a lot of hard work, and often comes along with headaches. I've been doing this close to 10 years and I've had my share of bad experiences, so I know what it feels like.

At the same time, I love the feeling of satisfaction when the problems are solved and perservered through. And that is why I continue to be in the industry until today.

I've seen your dyno results on socalevo, and although it wasn't a smooth process I'm happy to see that you guys made the power you were looking for when you bought the FR parts from me.

Its just too bad that isn't enough to appease your frustrations.

-Andy