20G Turbocharger
Ha I find it difficult to even attempt getting all those readings accruately and efficientlywithout the proper lab grade sensors. Remember to run those test you would have to strictly follow ASME PTC 10 rules.
I'd definately like to try something like this for a future project. Sounds like a good project that a university would fund (well most schools would)!
I'd definately like to try something like this for a future project. Sounds like a good project that a university would fund (well most schools would)!
Originally Posted by Ted B
Selling EVO parts appears to be a lucrative 'turkey shoot', and I'd be wise to get both hands and feet in this business. Caveat emptor
the margin of actual cost of goods and MSRP are quite thin to be honest. I know this because I used to work in this industry. Its quite tough these days with all these price wars going on the internet forums and various auction sites.
Its the manufacturers like FP, Turbochargers, Full-Race and other big name companies are making the large profit. Believe it or not, FP only offers 10% off to wholesale vendors on their turbos..
But anyway.. back to regular programing
Last edited by RuckerPark; Apr 1, 2006 at 07:23 PM.
Originally Posted by EFIxMR
Ted,
This is not a disingenuous question so please don't take it as that, what i take from this conversation is that you propose the key element in maximizing the stock or stock like setup isn't accomplished by modifying the turbo provided it has the 10.5 hotside, but instead some other element inside buschurs RS that makes the disparity between our normal 117 mph traps and buschur's 12x traps. If its not the turbo itself, then what is it? As I am sure many people on this board would like to know and would pay good money for whatever that element was. If its not the turbo, why keep it under wraps... why not promote the hell out of it, and sell that hidden element instead? The results would be a lot more repeatable, and in the long run more people would buy it.
I mean isn't this 20G 6 blade a exact replication of the 20G compressor wheel buschur loved on DSMs? He said that when it was on his talon they worked great, and provided 120+ mph trap speeds. He essentially clips the turbine the same way he did on these 20G 6 blade turbos the same way he did on the DSM, except now the we have the addition of a more efficient exhuast housing (twin scroll dual port wg).
If get the chance I will try and see if i can replicate Buschurs 20G 6 blade testing with my ADL monitering boost and ait before and after the intercooler as well as exhaust manifold pressure. Of course I'll post the results.
This is not a disingenuous question so please don't take it as that, what i take from this conversation is that you propose the key element in maximizing the stock or stock like setup isn't accomplished by modifying the turbo provided it has the 10.5 hotside, but instead some other element inside buschurs RS that makes the disparity between our normal 117 mph traps and buschur's 12x traps. If its not the turbo itself, then what is it? As I am sure many people on this board would like to know and would pay good money for whatever that element was. If its not the turbo, why keep it under wraps... why not promote the hell out of it, and sell that hidden element instead? The results would be a lot more repeatable, and in the long run more people would buy it.
I mean isn't this 20G 6 blade a exact replication of the 20G compressor wheel buschur loved on DSMs? He said that when it was on his talon they worked great, and provided 120+ mph trap speeds. He essentially clips the turbine the same way he did on these 20G 6 blade turbos the same way he did on the DSM, except now the we have the addition of a more efficient exhuast housing (twin scroll dual port wg).
If get the chance I will try and see if i can replicate Buschurs 20G 6 blade testing with my ADL monitering boost and ait before and after the intercooler as well as exhaust manifold pressure. Of course I'll post the results.
also... what worked in the dsm world won't necessarily work in the evo world... it's really simple as that. reengineered 20g wheel? who cares... maybe it didn't work as well bakc then either... which buschur already addressed in his 20g testing post. and maybe that combo just doesn't fly in our evos... number of reasons may be because of the scroll... the o2 now flows more, this may put the blade in a bad spot in terms of efficiency. MANY possibilities here.
Originally Posted by EFIxMR
If the 20G evo 9 6 blade turbo didn't work what is this before and after dyno chart all about? 16g vs EVO9 20 6 blade
and this quote from topspeed tuning...
you can read the thread in its entirety here... click me
Two months ago... The EVO 9 20G 6 blade was the best thing ever with dyno proof to show... Now its the red headed step child.... and the new WR variant takes its place on the thrown?
I bought the WR because switzer said it was good... BR said it sucked so I stopped pursuing it, I bought a bunch of 20g evo 9 6 blades to offer to the community because BR said it was great, but now BR said they suck, and now the best thing around is a "new" version of the WR? Am I supposed to buy that one too now?
A person who'd followed this fiasco from start to finish money in hand could have probably gotten a stroker motor and GT35R. Im not trying to bash anyone here, but doesn't this seem more than a bit ridiculous?
In terms of nomenclature, what even makes a WR compressor wheel inside a EVO9 compressor housing with a clipped turbine qualify as a 20G in the first place? What we're really all talking about here is a WR! This game of framing is starting to remind me of my class in political science with George Lakoff.
Originally Posted by EFIxMR
No offense taken, but the honest truth is all the 20G's I had are sold out. And people call everyday looking for them. I can get the TME, EVO9 stock turbo, 20G, ect, any Garrett turbo, Borg Wagner, ect... I have no special ties to the 20G EVO 9 6 blade, like everyone else here I just want a turbo that performs well.
As far as TC.com... The last order they had 100 units come in, I called them yesterday for stocking and availability they are all sold out too. They have another 100 units on order scheduled to come in next week. If this turbo didn't work... The guys who would know for a fact is TC.com.
As a business person... don't you think it would be an unwise decision to invest in 100 units of a turbo that didn't work?
I'm not sure what the history is on TC.com, but they have treated me fairly. Their turbos come in on time and are packaged extremely safe, plus the pricing the offer to consumers is right on. The turbo's we've bought from them have zero shaft play when we get them, and the machining on them is flawless to the naked eye.
As far as TC.com... The last order they had 100 units come in, I called them yesterday for stocking and availability they are all sold out too. They have another 100 units on order scheduled to come in next week. If this turbo didn't work... The guys who would know for a fact is TC.com.
As a business person... don't you think it would be an unwise decision to invest in 100 units of a turbo that didn't work?
I'm not sure what the history is on TC.com, but they have treated me fairly. Their turbos come in on time and are packaged extremely safe, plus the pricing the offer to consumers is right on. The turbo's we've bought from them have zero shaft play when we get them, and the machining on them is flawless to the naked eye.
Originally Posted by trinydex
you posted the thread, did you not notice the early thread's discussion about some knock?
It wasnt knock he had a cut wire that led to the knock sensor.
Originally Posted by davidbuschur
I then pulled the inlet off the turbo to see what exactly I had on the car, found it is the current 20g-9-5 bladed wheel. Interesting. Interesting enough in fact that I put the normal Mitsubishi style 20G wheel'd turbo back on the car. Guess what, AIT's went back up. They climbed every pull by 4-5 degrees on a single 3rd gear run. HP stayed about the same as before, spool up was about the same etc. The turbos are close but the IAT's are pretty amazing. It shows how much more efficient the 20g-9-5 wheel is.
This post was written on March 1st. Now it's April 2, and suddenly 32 days later the 20G 6 blade is POS according to Buschur?
yeah it is a bit funny isn't it... but hten he just did the test that said the "new" style did like 20 hp better than the 6 blader. the question is really hwen he switched his personal one to a 5 blader.
Exactly. I have no vendetta against FP or the WR in fact im glad to see that it has the potential to be improved, since I was an early adopter of the turbo. My company in fact has an FP account too.
Bottom line is I've watched Buschur's development of the 6 Blade 20G evo 9 these past months, like everyone else here, and his results convinced me to invest in the product.
As far as the fallout between him and TC.com that is none of my business, but it is too bad as Buschur's hard work in promoting/developing the product is the major reason why sales of this product are so sucessful.
Bottom line is I've watched Buschur's development of the 6 Blade 20G evo 9 these past months, like everyone else here, and his results convinced me to invest in the product.
As far as the fallout between him and TC.com that is none of my business, but it is too bad as Buschur's hard work in promoting/developing the product is the major reason why sales of this product are so sucessful.
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