Ted,

This is not a disingenuous question so please don't take it as that, what i take from this conversation is that you propose the key element in maximizing the stock or stock like setup isn't accomplished by modifying the turbo provided it has the 10.5 hotside, but instead some other element inside buschurs RS that makes the disparity between our normal 117 mph traps and buschur's 12x traps. If its not the turbo itself, then what is it? As I am sure many people on this board would like to know and would pay good money for whatever that element was. If its not the turbo, why keep it under wraps... why not promote the hell out of it, and sell that hidden element instead? The results would be a lot more repeatable, and in the long run more people would buy it.

I mean isn't this 20G 6 blade a exact replication of the 20G compressor wheel buschur loved on DSMs? He said that when it was on his talon they worked great, and provided 120+ mph trap speeds. He essentially clips the turbine the same way he did on these 20G 6 blade turbos the same way he did on the DSM, except now the we have the addition of a more efficient exhuast housing (twin scroll dual port wg).

If get the chance I will try and see if i can replicate Buschurs 20G 6 blade testing with my ADL monitering boost and ait before and after the intercooler as well as exhaust manifold pressure. Of course I'll post the results.

 

can someone post a dyno graph from a car that has tested both a 20g-9 (6) blade and a 20g-9(5) blade as the only change?

off topic but, these 20g-8's, 20g-9's are 20g wheels in a evo(8) and evo(9) housing? therefor not 20g housing with 20g wheels? can someone post a picture of a real 20g if this is true?

and finally, what are people seeing making the most power stock evo 9 turbo, evo(8)20g, evo(9)20g 5 or 6 blade? thanks this would fix a lot of my confusion please bare with me thanks!

 

If the 20G evo 9 6 blade turbo didn't work what is this before and after dyno chart all about? 16g vs EVO9 20 6 blade

and this quote from topspeed tuning...

you can read the thread in its entirety here... click me

Two months ago... The EVO 9 20G 6 blade was the best thing ever with dyno proof to show... Now its the red headed step child.... and the new WR variant takes its place on the thrown?



I bought the WR because switzer said it was good... BR said it sucked so I stopped pursuing it, I bought a bunch of 20g evo 9 6 blades to offer to the community because BR said it was great, but now BR said they suck, and now the best thing around is a "new" version of the WR? Am I supposed to buy that one too now?

A person who'd followed this fiasco from start to finish money in hand could have probably gotten a stroker motor and GT35R. Im not trying to bash anyone here, but doesn't this seem more than a bit ridiculous?

In terms of nomenclature, what even makes a WR compressor wheel inside a EVO9 compressor housing with a clipped turbine qualify as a 20G in the first place? What we're really all talking about here is a WR! This game of framing is starting to remind me of my class in political science with George Lakoff.

 

OK THEN

 

Hi EFIxMR,

Personally, even if the 6 bladed 20G performs as well as the 5 bladed 20G, I will still choose the 5 bladed 20G over the 6 bladed 20G because :

1) I trust that the results of FP's R&D and Buschur's testing are legit because of their track record in producing quality products. These 2 companies have a good reputation and as I don't know everyone posting here, I rather believe them since they have much more to lose in terms of business integrity if they are caught fibbing unlike others here. It might not be a 'real' 20G or whatever...that's just a name. The thing is that what they are selling flat out works and based on new info. being posted by both DB and FP on BR's forum (http://buschurforums.com/forum/showt...t=15546&page=2), it has a significant advantage over the 6 bladed 20G.

2) 6 bladed 20G is made by turbochargers.com and I don't wish to deal with them ever again. Too much grief for too little savings.

No offense but I feel that you are throwing more confusion into the mix simply because you are left holding the 6 bladed 20Gs. Why not just ask BR if they can convert them to the 5 bladed design for free since they already made the same offer to those who bought direct from them? For those who are looking at a '20G', the 5 bladed ones do make more sense (ask Ted B for his unbiased opinion) so unless you can offer real proof that the 6 bladed design made by turbochargers.com is a superior one, I would rather take DB + FP's 'opinions' over yours.

I don't care much about vendor wars and the associated BS that gets posted by those with vested interest. I do prefer to spend my $$ on well-supported products that work and like many others here, I will have to form my own judgement on who to believe

 

>> I bought the WR because switzer said it was good... BR said it sucked so I stopped pursuing it, I bought a bunch of 20g evo 9 6 blades to offer to the community because BR said it was great, but now BR said they suck, and now the best thing around is a "new" version of the WR? Am I supposed to buy that one too now?

When the facts change, I change my mind I wouldn't want to punish myself further by holding on to the past 'truths' that have been proven false. It won't benefit me one bit to defend such a stance and in fact, might even make me look foolish. I guess you have just experienced the biggest danger of being an early adopter....one day, there might be a better 10 bladed 20G and then what? All those who have the current 5 bladed 20G will have to stand up and defend their purchases? Just a waste of time to me....just like those Evo VII owners justifying their decisions not to upgrade to the VIII and the VIII owners not upgrading to the IX and so on and so forth

At this point in time, buying the 5 bladed 20G is the smarter decision and if you guys don't want to be caught out by a newer design...just wait and don't buy now. No matter what, I just don't see how the 6 bladed 20G is better than the 5 bladed 20G. If I don't trust FP and DB, I won't buy either

 

For guys with the 6 bladed wheel...

 

The WR wheel is not a '20G'. The new 20G is actually a misnomer.

What makes Buschur's RS deliver 12X mph traps?

Ported Head
Cams that can take advantage of the increase headflow (Revolvers)
Ported Intake
Large TB
At least a ported exhaust manifold
Ported turbine housing
Larger O2 housing
Standalone engine management (and lots of dyno tuning time)

You're right that people would pay good money for all of this, I'd estimate somewhere around $6000 + installation, not including the other obvious based mods that go along with it.

 

I think you'll find this thread to be somewhat more revealing:

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...highlight=head

 

OK, So thanks Guys for making this more confusing. Now i have NO CLUE what to buy. 5 Blade 6 blade, 2 Sideways. whatever turbo you guys are talking about is just not right, too many Mixed opinions. I didnt want ANY vendors in this thread But apprantly That wasnt met. SO.I just dont understand How this forums can be so influanced by what 1 vendor says.


This is what i think

Since I think that BR, Turbo Trix, Vishnu, TurboChargers.com or whoever else is on this forum is just swinging us around and giving us a line of BS Than I will do the following....


I call your Bluff with this 20g Crap.
If you guys want my money. lets do a little Researching.

I Myself will test out ALL of your versions of the 20g. On my own i will pay for the testing and Dyno Time. If you guys supply the turbos. I will do all the leg work.

I have the Average EVO. like most of the people sitting at there Computers right now are confused and just want to save some money and not get Screwed.

im 21 I pay for my own Evo, I work 50 plus hours a week. I Go to the track when i can. I live in Boston. Just so you know alittle about me and dont think im some punk kid whos mommy and Daddy bought them his car and pays for all his mods.

REGARDS ...

Anthony

SO YOU ALL KNOW. I HAVE NO TIE TO ANY VENDOR

 

I hear ya man. The 20G business has gotten a little crazy and confusing along with it.

 

The whole white rabbit, 21g, evo9-20g, and evo8-20g....

It's been nothing but smoke and mirrors the whole time and a lot of you fail to realize that.

The main problem is the stock evo turbos, both of them, are VERY efficient. They make awsome power, and it's hard to improve on them.



Here is what I would need before I could endorse a product like this....take for example, 03 evo 8, already upgraded 10.5 hotside, already upgraded lower intercooler piping. Dyno this way, then pull the turbo.

Install the 20g9, tune, dyno.

See, honestly I think a lot of these cars were making power because on an evo8, you're going to see gains from the 10.5 hotside, and the fact that you have to change the lower piping. You're going to see increases there.

Then when it's all said and done, cost vs performance.

The problem with me saying this is....I like David Buschur, he has done more for the 4g63 community then almost EVERYONE. He had the ***** to go out and be different and try something new.

So that's my issue.

 

All I ever wanted was a 2005 EVO with a flash and basic power mods to upgrade to a 20g-9 on PUMP GAS and see the results.

Buschur's 20G numbers are unrealistic. Who has a built motor, ported head, EMS, Revolvers, ported TB/IM etc? Thats serious mods. Id say the majority of people like 80% or more are looking for a stock turbo like upgrade to make a nice gain in power on pump gas. Ive still yet to see some god damn numbers on it, and thats still why I have my stock turbo.

 

You're making great power on the stocker though.

 

I know but I just keep thinking of just a small upgrade that could hold boost to redline. I made great power with it falling to 19psi at 7300, thats beat. I cant imagine another 3psi up there, the car would be a different animal. However, Im afraid to give up my midrange torque since I do a lot of roll-on racing and it helps dramatically.