I thought the only difference between the 5-blade and 6-blade was the temps the turbos were generating. Is there a big power difference between the two?

 

I went straight from a TME to a 6-blade EVO-IX 20G. We did a meticulous job of dyno tuning both, creating a 93 oct map and a 93+meth map.

When the 6-blade 20G caught up with the boost pressure of the TME at 3900rpm, the 20G was down by about 45whp and 50ft/lbs, at the *same* boost pressure and AFR. Keep in mind that these are DD numbers, so it would be more like down 50whp and 57ft/lbs on a Dynojet. After 5000rpm, it made no more power than the TME, even with 3psi more boost across the board. How's that for a big power difference?

Buschur just published results from his own testing, which gave the exact same result. Bottom line, avoid those 6-blade compressor 20Gs. The version sold with the FP 5-blade compressor is apparently a very different story.

Just important FYI for those who are considering a 20G. Be sure you get the right one!

 

Woah, I didnt know this... very good info to know! Thanks.

 

what is sketchy to me is that people said the same thing about the WR. but now that the WR has a new compressor cover and a clipped turbine, suddenly it works great?

If the 20G evo 9 6 blade is crap, why is it then that Buschur said the 20G EVO 8 said made power, and only had surging problems? Then he changed the compressor cover to EVO 9 which at that point still had the six blade compressor wheel, and he said said it cured the surging and made even more power than before.

The real question here is at what point did he change from the EVO 9 6 blade to the EVO 9 5 blade, and of the dynos he posted what turbo was he actually running then? He told his customers that the EVO 9 both 5 and 6 blade functioned identically and made the same power, but now suddenly the 6 blade either with EVO 9 or EVO 8 cover doesn't work?

Something here doesn't make sense. I spend a lot of time here and read all the major threads. Things just aren't adding up. If everything Buschur said in the past year regarding the 20G is now a farce... I don't know what to think of what he is saying now. I think any person with common sense would see the same thing and see the same inconsistencies.

Yes, our company does sell the EVO9 20G, and honestly if I wasn't convinced that it worked, I wouldn't put our money into it. That would be a bad investment. And a large amount of this confidence I have in this product is due to Buschur's testing the past year, which I felt was sound. I'm just looking for a good bolt on turbo that works like everyone else here, so far the 20G EVO 9 6 blade has the most compelling results.

 

My thought exactly. That's why I was getting confused when I hear people saying that the 6 blade design sucks, or it's like the plague and stay away from it. From this point all I can say is that I will install it, and get it tuned and report back with my findings. If it turns out to be waste of money, then I will tell you. Besides it wouldn't be the first time I wasted some money. I would then take the turbo out and modify it to the 5 blade design.

 

did you keep the tme internals when you went 20g styles?

 

this is what happens when vendors rule... now no one knows what the hell to believe or what's going on. i think ted b is a reliable person. also he has nothing to really gain or lose from this. well he has a lot already lost... but it IS recommending the 5 blade or at least not discouraging it from what he can with good conscience objectively recommend.

this is also the problem that i foresaw a long time ago with br's testing, the fact is, he's doing it on HIS CAR... the br car is not a reliable source of numbers, it's a reliable source of ultimate potential... so let the buyer beware

 

I can offer no explanation with regard to who said what, when, and why, but I do know that none of that makes our cars go faster. I am a consumer. I sell nothing here, I make no profit, and I have no agenda. I generated thorough test results out of my own pocket - something very few vendors bother to do.

I have a TME and a 6-blade EVO-IX 20G. We've dyno tuned each ad nauseum, and no matter which way we sliced it, the 6-blade 20G proved to be inferior to a TME. I have the dyno data, including AFR and boost pressure logs to prove it:

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=187039

YMMV, but I seriously doubt it based upon my results and the results of others that I've since become aware of up to this point. I wish it wasn't that way, but that's the way the chips have fallen. If someone can demonstrate equally thorough, competently dyno tuned results that show differently, I invite them to post their complete logs, graphs, and results.

I'm not here to promote anything, however I have seen enough to convince me that the 5-blade unit works *much* better than the 6-blade unit that is still in my car.


Yes, my 6-blade EVO-IX 20G has the TiAl turbine wheel, and that is about as apples to apples as one can get in making an accurate comparison.

 

TurboTrix 20g, is a 20g turbo, thats the difference, while all the others are a 16g.

Scorke

 

SO ITS BAD IDEA NOW I DONT KNOW WHAT TO DO

 

Ted,

While your experience with the turbo is undeniable, I think it is still too soon to generalize across the board that the 20 6 blade doesn't work. There simply isn't enough of them installed and tuned to make that assessment.

Not that I doubt your abilities, as I've read many of your post and they are very insightful. However there are times where certain parts work great on some cars and don't work good on others even though they are "supposed" to be the same part. Alot of this has to do with combination, engine wear, gas quality, manufacturing tolerance ect... These things aren't static. Another possibility is that it doesnt work as advertised period, but at this point I think that is a bit premature.

I had a WR before, but I couldn't match Switzers Performance numbers... Does this mean the WR isn't a capable turbo? From my point of view all I can really say is that it wasn't right for me and my goals. When we see some more dyno plots from other people running this turbo I think that would be a more fair assessment of whether it works or not.

 

Maybe, but I've become more confident that my results are typical since becoming aware of several others with similar results. I suspect that Buschur's tests were done with a 6-blade EVO-IX 20G vs. a bone stock EVO VIII turbo, which should result in a slight increase in peak hp and maybe a few ft/lbs. If this seems like good news, be advised this is potentially misleading because whatever very nominal peak power increase is at hand is apparently due to the larger (10.5cm) hotside and slightly more efficient EVO-IX compressor cover. Below 5k rpm however, it doesn't hold a candle to a TME - which AFAIK, wasn't considered in the original testing.

In other words, the 6-blade 20G wheel isn't doing squat for performance or efficiency as compared to a 16G wheel, and I feel the various results I've become aware of to date demonstrate that convincingly. After all, when one can raise the boost pressure from 24 psi to 28 psi in the midrange and see NO increase in power despite exhaustive timing changes, the turbo is done. This actually turns out to be less efficient than the 16G wheel, which delivers better power and torque through ~30psi in the same region. Since going from a TME to the 6-blade 20G, my torque dropped considerably.

My guess is David's testing was rushed and incomplete at the time of release. I suppose persons like myself who called him frequently in anticipation didn't help matters, but I'm not offering that as an excuse. At least he made good on his offer to upgrade the few of us with the 6-blade wheels to the 5-blade at his cost, which effectively neutralized any potential issues with consumers. This may not be a workable option for all vendors, so I offer this as a word of caution before putting too many of these out on the streets.

Just my $.02

 

Ted,

You seem to be very meticulous in your parts selection. Looking for the best proven parts for your car.

You came from a stock turbo 8 then to a TME and I guess you found enough good info on the 20g-9 (6) for you to upgrade.
Now you found out that the Turbo isn't what it's all about after testing in your car, How can you say that the 5 blade would give you what your looking for without having it ?
I know you have charts for your car that your TME was better than your 20g.
So how did DB made almost 400whp on their dyno while they were testing the 5 v.s. 6 blade (5 blade made more HP/tq). Same car same dyno same day.
Last time I checked...I haven't seen a TME made that kind of power in their dyno.

So I don't know. Maybe it's the turbo 20g-9 6 or some mechanical issue on your car but I think your the kind of person that has already checked that possibility out. But you never know.
Hopefully this 5 blade will be a solution to all your problems.

 

I graduated from the stock turbo to the TME. I took a gamble that the 20G with Ti turbine would do what the TME did, but better. It turns out that gamble was a mistake, not necessarily because it was a bad decision, but because I didn't wait long enough to get the correct version. There is no mechanical issue with my car. I can still run 12.0 @ 117 with 3/4 full tank and crappy traction (1.8s 60'), but the midrange is weak as compared to the TME, it spools ~300rpm slower (and that's with the the TiAl turbine!), and it's a lot less fun on the street. Also, I have to run several psi more boost to equal the same peak power as the TME.

As for my options now, I won't be upgrading to the 5-blade wheel. Not because I don't believe it would deliver what I was looking for, but because I've already invested too much to make a gain of 30whp worthwhile. The best option for me at this point is chalk it up as an expensive experience and go larger.

And the only reason you haven't seen a TME make 380whp on Buschur's dyno is because you haven't seen his heavily modded test car (or one identically equipped) run a TME.

 

Cuando la instales,dejame saber como te brega,ok?