silverEVO8-- The only two wires that need to be cut/intercepted by the XEDE are for MAF and Crank angle signal. Power and ground need to be tapped (not cut) as well. Basically the same install as a S-AFC. There is another function of the XEDE in which we can map the sensitivity of the factory knock control system. But this is only suggested for higher output applications and requires tapping (not cutting) into the knock sensor wire. This is not a part of Stage Zero though as we've found it to be unnecessary at this stage.

As for East Coast dyno tuning, it looks like I'll be going to the dyno day later this month at Altered Atmosphere (in MD) for some XEDE tuning. I do make somewhat regular tuning trips all around the US. All it takes is enough interest and the availability of a dyno (and some good, lightly-patrolled roads )

BTW, the website as been updated with new Stage Zero information. Pictures to follow (was never smart enough to actually take pics of the exhaust before they went on the cars). http://www.vishnutuning.com/lancer_stage_zero.htm

Cheers,
shiv

PS. I was just told that our EVO will be on the cover of Autoweek next week. They spent a day with us, tuned with me on the dyno, and went on a few "hotlaps" in couple Stage Zero EVOs. Ron Kimble took some excellent photography at Moffet Airforce Base. Looks *awesome*. Never new the EVO was that photogenic

 

Shiv:

Would you be so kind as to explain why another well known tuner, using another tuners Dyno Dynamics(the same dyno you use) so as not to be biased, was able to record wheel horsepower numbers in excess of 50 from your number?

Thanks!

http://www.vividracing.com/evo/stage2.php

 

Simple. Vastly different dyno settings. They used a very fast ramp up rate (nearly twice as fast as mine) which means much less thermal loading and more peak hp. This super quick test is illustrated by the fact they don't even get full boost until 5000rpm or so (evident in their torque curve which peaks at a very high 5000rpm or so). In Dynojet terms, it's the different between dyno testing a car in 1st gear and dyno testing it in 4th gear. Which one better represents a car's power band is up to you to decide.

FWIW, we're only operational AWD Dyno Dynamics facility in North America that has been tested, calibrated and trained by Dyno Dynamics. That's why our numbers typically follow international standards and not the usually inflated US-style numbers. It's a decision we made a while back. It does require, at times, a lot more explanation but I think it's a more accurate number. Plus, our overseas affiliates would mock terribly us if we followed standard US dyno practices.

Cheers,
shiv

 

Shiv does match up very well with the numbers that G-force in the UK get on their Dyno Dynamics. I was just talking to a friend about this very issue. Absolute numbers on different dynos mean absolutely nothing. That goes for the same type dyno operated differently.

Erik

 

Exactly - this is what is so often NOT quoted in dyno results, yet it makes all the difference in the world.

Adam

 

Shiv,

Seems like a pretty pricy exhaust. What material T304 or 316? Any pics or decible at wide open throttle?

Also how many hrs required for you to tune your xede? And how much would you charge per hour or per job with your kits for east coast people?

I'll be interested in a non cut kit

 

Shiv,
I'm assuming you've seen this thread? For those of you not wanting to splice, it seems that there is an extension harness from this japanese company called Fields, through Skunk2.com (Part #CD-4). You can apparently splice into that and pull your signals from the extension, leaving everything else intact. They would probably have to order it, but it seems to be universal for several cars, and it's compatible with Evos IV-VII at least, likely with the VIII too.
Here's the thread:
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...threadid=22430

Maybe there's some wires that wouldn't cover for the stage zero, but might be worth checking out for under $100.

Peace

 

Adam, don't you have the Field harnesses coming to you? Sounds like these would be ideal to implement the XEDE mod to our cars. Can you shed more light on the subject?

Thanx

 

The EVO 7 extenstion harness should work just fine for the EVO 8. There are pin-out differences but the connectors are the same. Just as long as it's 100% pass through and all the same wires are used (no voids in the harness). This would be a good solution for XEDE users until our PnP harness is ready.

Cheers,
shiv

 

I'm thinking we're not the only two that have these exact same questions.

I'm also wondering if Northeast Evo8 owners would like to get in on, say, a one-day Vishnu tune fest, perhaps hosted by a place like Pruven with Shiv in attendance. Kinda like a combo group buy on Vishnu stage zero and tuning to go along with it.

Any interest? I'll branch a thread if so.

 

I'm a little bit confused about what exactly the XEDE does. I guess my question is if the GReddy e-manage or the S-AFC (among others) do the same thing as the XEDE? At least as I understand from the above quote, the interceped signals would seem to be used to cantrol fuel delivery only (the sensitivity of the Knock sensor is not used anyway...). It would be most helpful to know what the differences (advantages, disadvantages) of these various products are. Only with knowledge can some of use make good choices and sound purchasing decisions. I'd be nost grateful for any input that will enhance my education in this area.

Thanks.

 

The Xede and Emanage are both piggyback units that intercept and alter the signals your EVO's ECU relies on to do everything from idle when cold to accelerating under full throttle -- and a host of other functions in between.

The primary disadvantages inherent in any such unit are as follows:

1) The inherent delay that occurs between the intercepting device's recieving and re-sending the altered signal

and

2) The fact that the ECU has no idea it is being fed an altered signal. Since the EVO ECU has adaptive learning capability, this means that the ECU is reacting and building maps on a false premise.

More details on interceptors/black boxes and piggybacks can be found at http://www.worksrally.com under "Engine Upgrades: Why get the 'Brain' reflash?"

-- DavidV

 

Hi David,

Thanks for your input but I feel compelled to expand upon the differences between our XEDE and the TECHTOM reflashing system you use to develop your "Brain" offering. That comes later.

First, let's address some of your points. You are correct in that the XEDE is a piggy-back system. However, you are incorrectly implying that the XEDE introduces a performance-robbing signal delay/degredation. In fact, if you compared oscilliscope readings of the factory crank angle sensor waveform to that of the replicated (by XEDE) waveform, you will be hard pressed to tell the difference.

And considering that factory ECUs rarely relies on much more than signal voltage peaks and dips to determine crank position and coil charging, most of the XEDEs replication abilities is just icing on the cake. FWIW, we've been able to add and subtract up to 20 degrees of ignition timing offsets without even a hint of diagnostic misfire detection (which is the first thing to get triggered when CAS signal isn't replicated properly.)

Here's a link comparing the original CAS signal waveform (of a WRX which is more multi-toothed/complicated than an EVO) to that of the XEDE to that of a typical piggy-back (which I assume you are basing your comments upon):

http://www.vishnupower.com/cas.htm

Okay, that's timing. Now let's move on to fuel control. The replication of the frequency-based MAF signal waveform is handling with equal aplomb to well within 1%. Considering that we've recorded something as innocuous as a K&N drop-in filter to induce MAF misreadings of several percent, it is unlikely that the car is to miss a beat.

Finally, both piggy-back signal replication functions can be tested in the real world by setting all the XEDE maps to zero and doing successive dyno pulls. Needless to say, when doing so, there isn't any discernable difference between no XEDE and with the XEDE (which is still replicating all signals).

Regarding reflashed ECUs vs. piggy-back. First, I'd like to point out that we reflash more WRX ECUs than just about everyone else in the US combined. Many of these are in-house dyno tunes. The rest are pre-mapped for a given set of mods. That said, we have a pretty good handle of the pros and cons associated with either remapped ECUs or XEDEs (which are also quite popular).

As it stands right now, we have better control of the EVO engine with the XEDE than we would with the Techtom reflashing system. It's only a matter of time, of course, before the secondary maps are found in those pages of hexidecimal and tweaked to get the desired outcome. But that takes a bit more than 100 runs on the dyno Until then, we will continue to offer the XEDE as our primary form of engine control. Eventually, we will have the factory ECU so cracked that we will also offer reflashed ECUs. But that takes time. In the end, both are totally acceptable options-- each meeting different customer needs.

Just my 2c,
shiv

 

I am sure someone else has asked this already...but I must have missed it in my search..

Shiv, if I were to purchase the stage 0 from you.....would I be able to upgrade to stage 1 when you release it with the equipment I own (stage 0), or would I need to start from scratch again?

You say on your site the stage 0 can give 15% increase over stock, which equates to 310 flywheel horsepower...is this a conservative figure obtained on 91 gas.....if so will there be an improvement on this figure if 93 is used?....would I need to specify what gas I use when ordering?

Do you have a pic of your catback yet?

 

If stage 0 comes with prewires or with extension harness let me know so i can place an order.