No Zeus, Leave it open, I guess this remains a "good read" without the flaming. And Smoggy, you are correct, thanks Shiv and Andrew for the tunes, and Al for doing what you do. I wasn't talking about the difference in tunes here, just the EXTRA parts I had to get down the track vs the Parts the other driver had. thats all.

In other words, does the extra parts = MORE power? That is the gist of the thread!!

 

Hey David That grudge match lane was GREAT!! NO waiting!! Like an express lane at the Grocery store!! Again, that was FUN!

 

Lots of $$$ thrown at a car doesn't always mean big HP #s...
and big HP #'s doesn't always mean quick 1/4 mile times.....

You still heave to know how to drive......

and only in an evo forum would people be disappointed with low 12's..... you people are really jaded...

and for the record....
a great example to all the people who say drag racing doesn't take skill..............fools.....

 

Smoked, your car is a frankenbeast ... IMO you need to take some time-out and get it all sorted out. Get that alky kit hooked up and working, check everything over ... twice ... and then get'er tuned. If you still have the XEDE hooked up, you can also enable launch control - erm, just for the cool sound, of course

l8r)

 

Hey Ludi!! Good to hear from you again. I still have the Xede, and will get things sorted out and have Shiv Dyno it in KC, or down at Dyno4mance. I need a BIGGER cup to cry in, as this one is getting full!!

 

Smoked ... I'm actually glad you posted. You brought up quite a few ideas in a nice format, that is comparatively, very easy to understand. To broaden out the subject a bit, let me make a quick say on gas types and tuning.

My tuning days (as small and incremental as they are) stem from motor bikes. My first and most substantial tuning tuning endeavor was a Suzuki SV650S. Its a 650cc V-Twin. My second was a TL1000S ... which is a 1000cc twin cylinder. Both run over 11:1 compression ratios. (Suzuki's faith in piston, head, and chamber designs). What I found was, once tuned for a certain grade of fuel, going down in fuel grade caused detonation or more likely harsh(er) running, but going up didn't really net any better performance.

On these paticular bikes, in stock form plus a K&N and exhaust, I first felt best performance on 87oct. Not 85, 89, or 91oct, it was definately 87oct. Then I got to run my TL1000S on a dyno for a tune. The first thing the dyno tech. noticed (on that 70deg. day) was my TL was running a little more power (a mere 2hp more than usual TLs, but that's quite a bit to a bike tuner) and he asked why. I mentioned he might be seeing 87oct. gas instead of 91oct. He then optimised some parameters, mainly for power output smoothness which is a known TL1000S problem. Suzuki actually does a pretty awesome WoT tune on their bikes.

The moral of the story is if you tune to a paticular gas profile, once you up the octane way up, you run into not being able to fire off the gas hardly at all and end up with probably less power produced across the rev. range. Leaded fuels are even worse. Their effective octane goes through the roof and their burn profile is significantly different than pump gasses. Hopefully my 'other motors' example helps put octane and performance into a better perspective. That and I be DROOLing that you have a TME Turbo.

Good Luck, .. let us know soon how the tune goes.

Best Regards,
Cheers,
~j.

P.S. Best frontline reference on octane I could come up with, and a well-written read at least: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating

 

You are absolutly correct Al. You would not lose any power by running leaded race gas. The only way i could see a change in power is if you ran oxygenated gas, therefor would make the car run lean. Anyone that does not beleive it should try it, go to the track with pump gas in your car and make a couple passes, then dump in some 110 leaded gas, you will not run slower, in fact you may run faster, depending on who tuned the car. Saying that is if your car is getting any knock.

 

Excellent reply!!! Thanks alot, and I will let you know how the tune goes!! Again, thanks!!

 

I was wondering if you could clarify this? How is leaded gas hard on an ignition system?

 

I think it burns hotter, and messes with the plugs and the O2 sensors. On a side note. I have driven my car with 110 LEADED for 30, yes thirty thousand miles!! (30,000) without having a problem with the O2 sensors, or the O2 on my AEM UEGO gague! Guess I was lucky. I think the leaded and unleaded have different burn characteristics.

I have been told to RUN the gas you were dynoed on!! ie if 110 leaded, dont put in 109 Unleaded and expect the same results!

 

I know what leaded gas does to O2 sensors and spark plugs. I would like clarification from Mr Vishnu on how it stresses the actual ignition system (I realize plugs are part of the system but I don't think any performance enthusiast gives a crap about replacing spark plugs in one of these engines).

 

Leaded gas is harder to light off during cold starts. And in many cases, depending on ecu calibration/injector size/idle speed/starting enrichment/etc., this will fouled the plugs. I know of many folks who have tuned their cars to run on c16 the night before a race. Started up their car the next morning and drove to the track. On their first run, the car sputtered and missed as soon as it hit boost. Had to replace plugs to fix the problem. Not a big deal but the problem wouldn't have occured if they had ran unleaded race gas in the first place.

Anyone who wants to see just how differently race gas burns just needs to try to start up their car first thing in the morning and see not how long it takes to achieve a stable and clean idle. Leaded gas has its place but there is a reason that fewer and fewer people are using it these days. And it's not just because of the toxic poisoning effects.

-shiv

 

If you already know what leaded race gas does to spark plugs (which most would agree to be a part of the ignition system), why are you asking me to clarify my statement?

If you don't think that the spark plug is an "actual" ignition system component, then I guess we found the source of the confusion. If you don't give a poo about changing plugs, that's cool. Me? I'd rather drive.

shiv

 

Put a good clutch under her at the time of tuning, proper fuel at the track, and I could've gotten him 113-114 easy on pump (93) gas.

 

question: what happens if you put vp109 to a 100oct map?? do you loose power or is the difference insignificant??