EVOIX 20G TME...anyone running it?
Fair comments made Ted B. Are you still running the 20G9-6 or have you gone back to TME?
I guess with my setup the 20G9-6 appears to be working well and I havent come across a TME in my neck of the woods with a similar set up that keeps up.
For those people who arent getting the results from their 20G9-6, could you simply swap the 6 blade compressor wheel to a 5 bladed one? Or is the compressor wheel profiles different so you would need to machine the compressor housing as well? This assumes the vendors of the 5 blade are willing to sell the wheel seperately.
I guess with my setup the 20G9-6 appears to be working well and I havent come across a TME in my neck of the woods with a similar set up that keeps up.
For those people who arent getting the results from their 20G9-6, could you simply swap the 6 blade compressor wheel to a 5 bladed one? Or is the compressor wheel profiles different so you would need to machine the compressor housing as well? This assumes the vendors of the 5 blade are willing to sell the wheel seperately.
I sold my TME, so there's no going back to that. The 20G9-6 is now off my car, but I'm going larger. The biggest difference with the TME is torque at midrange pressures of 25psi (1.7 bar) or better. When I went to the 20G9-6 TiAl, I lost some 50ft/lbs at the same boost pressure at less than 5000rpm. Once past 5000rpm, the two gave almost identical numbers.
The 6-blade compressor is a 20G compressor. The 5-blade is a revised 16G compressor. The two are interchangeable with no machining or anything else AFAIK.
The 6-blade compressor is a 20G compressor. The 5-blade is a revised 16G compressor. The two are interchangeable with no machining or anything else AFAIK.
Originally Posted by Ted B
I sold my TME, so there's no going back to that. The 20G9-6 is now off my car, but I'm going larger. The biggest difference with the TME is torque at midrange pressures of 25psi (1.7 bar) or better. When I went to the 20G9-6 TiAl, I lost some 50ft/lbs at the same boost pressure at less than 5000rpm. Once past 5000rpm, the two gave almost identical numbers.
The 6-blade compressor is a 20G compressor. The 5-blade is a revised 16G compressor. The two are interchangeable with no machining or anything else AFAIK.
The 6-blade compressor is a 20G compressor. The 5-blade is a revised 16G compressor. The two are interchangeable with no machining or anything else AFAIK.
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Originally Posted by althemean
I think this is where there is some speculation that BR's 5 blade wheel being supplied by Forced Performance may actually be their White Rabbit wheel. The release of BR's turbo and subsequent discontinuation of the WR is a little coincidental. To my knowledge neither vendor has said this to be true. But if this is the case, then that 5 blade wheel was designed to go into a TME cartridge......while BR's original 20g-8 upgrade was a poor match for the turbo housing which is what caused the surging issues and is why he never put it into a TME. I believe I got that story right. Anyone else care to chime in on this? This is all speculation remember...before any of you flame happy knuckleheads jumps in.
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Ted B, thanks for your input...the charts were a real help. Any suggestions in taking care of the back pressure you mentioned? Any suggestions on why you lost the torque? Any insight is very greatly appreciated...
Keep in mind that the functional parts of a turbo consists of a compressor wheel, turbine wheel, intake housing and exhaust housing. Each of these four components must be intelligently sized such as to work in balance with each other. If a particular turbo is a well-balanced system for a particular application, making a change to any of the four components may or may not work favorably.
In this case, a 16G is an exceptionally well engineered and balanced system. We already know that a slightly larger hotside and EVO-9 compressor cover eek a little more performance without upsetting the balance. In the case of the 20G, the idea was to shoehorn the larger 20G compressor inside the 16G cover in an attempt to try to get more airflow. This seems like an interesting idea, but my testing showed that the turbo ran out of steam at an unusually low boost pressure (hence the lost torque). When this happens, it's usually because the exhaust cannot be efficiently moved out at the same rate as the intake charge. This causes a buildup of pressure on the exhaust side (before the turbo), which prevents any more airflow from being realized. Subsequent testing by D. Buschur and Forced Performance confirmed this:
http://buschurforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15731
Essentially this indicates the compressor side is just too big for the turbine side, and therefore the 6-blade 20G compressor just doesn't appear to be a good match for the rest of the turbo. The 5-blade compressor isn't actually 20G wheel, and appears to work much better with the rest of the turbo components in that it doesn't create the same pressure problem.
In this case, a 16G is an exceptionally well engineered and balanced system. We already know that a slightly larger hotside and EVO-9 compressor cover eek a little more performance without upsetting the balance. In the case of the 20G, the idea was to shoehorn the larger 20G compressor inside the 16G cover in an attempt to try to get more airflow. This seems like an interesting idea, but my testing showed that the turbo ran out of steam at an unusually low boost pressure (hence the lost torque). When this happens, it's usually because the exhaust cannot be efficiently moved out at the same rate as the intake charge. This causes a buildup of pressure on the exhaust side (before the turbo), which prevents any more airflow from being realized. Subsequent testing by D. Buschur and Forced Performance confirmed this:
http://buschurforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15731
Essentially this indicates the compressor side is just too big for the turbine side, and therefore the 6-blade 20G compressor just doesn't appear to be a good match for the rest of the turbo. The 5-blade compressor isn't actually 20G wheel, and appears to work much better with the rest of the turbo components in that it doesn't create the same pressure problem.
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