I have no argument with your reasoning. It's just as you say though... There is no measurable performance increase unless perhaps the wires are so old and corroded that there's no circuit.... $100 - $200 for a modification of dubious value does not seem wise to me. Of course, I might yet be proven wrong. If someone can show me some credible evidence for the need of these wires, I'll try it myself...

 

forgive me if this has already been mentioned, as read most of the replies quicly.. The main reason that there are 5-6 grounding cables is to eliminate ground loops. This is a big part of interference, from microelectronics all the way up to 1000+ volt AC power systems for large buildings. In a building, a house, an automobile, or a printec circuitboard, you want your ground to be on a common point, or lug.
when you simply ground the chassis, no matter how well the chassis is grounded, you will read different voltages along the chassis. then when you have multiple devices looking fro 12V all grounded at random points along the chassis, the'yre goign to induce ground loops, which is basically a secondarry current running along the chassis at random directions. this wont prevent the devices from operating, but it introduces random transients and waveform currents that will mess with anything using microelectronics (ECU, Ignition, Radio, etc.).
Many of you have probably expereienced this when they install stereo equipment such as amps, and dont ground them all at a common point. then you'll hear a whining noise through your speakers when you rev the engine... or you'll see some horizontal lines fluttering around your tv screen when you rev.
what the 5-6 4-AWG cables do is effectively make your negative battery post about 8 feet long total, allowing everything in your car's engine bay to be effectively commonly grounded, therefore eliminating ground loops.
Bottom line, I havent done this yet, although I intend to as soon as i return to the states. In theory it shouldnt really help HP much, but it shoudl definitely help idle and responsiveness in theorey... Isnt that exactly what people have been saying?

 

Okay I don't understand what you mean. I was about to bring up the stereo point, but you did first, but I'm not following you. You say "The main reason that there are 5-6 grounding cables is to eliminate ground loops." But then got on to say people who don't ground their stereo equipment at a single point have loops.

It was my understand that having several grounding points on a stereo system creates ground loops. That's why a good system will have a distribution block for the grounds to bring them all to a single point, like say five to one. That way, there won't be any loops, like if each amp had its own ground, plus the headunit, the EQ, and so on.

All of the grounding kits I've seen have several wires. But since we don't care about the sound quality of our alternators, our ECUs and our power steering points -perhaps ground loops are not the issue?

If you want to see dyno results pick up any Import Tuner from like the past eight months or so up until the current one which features an Evolution 8. They've been using earthing kits on every one of their dyno tune cars and have shown great results (5-8hp) on every car, except one Prelude. They dyno test and it has been a wide variety of cars, and they were of course, skeptical at first. But swear by them now. I would like to try them, but they also have to play around with them to get the best results, and may actually lose power on early attempts. So, unless you have a dyno at your disposal, how could you know you did it right?

 

The grounding kits have multiple wires because they are all grounding to a common point (the negative post on your battery). Each of those wires is not acting as a separate ground. It's all going back to the battery.

 

similar to timzcat said, when i got down to pen and paper, i can actually "see" the gain. My in-car person feel dyno felt nothing. The HKS RS kit felt nothing. I won't feel any noticeable hp gains unless it's about 15 whp.

 

Ahh! It is all so logical now. I could see how the manufacturers could skimp a little on the grade of copper they use. It the same reason you find a plastic BOV in a car that barely holds 12psi (like in my car) A couple of dollars per unti may translate to millions on the other end. But how do you know where to put the grounds? Is it suggested in the kit?

 

Right, so what the kit does is basically make your battery post a big distribution block. or another way to look at it is making your engine bay a big distribution block, since any point in the engine bay is now a lot closer to the battery (from an electron's point of view)

and while most of us dont care how an alternator sounds, interference is definitely a bad thing for things like your ECU, ignition coil, etc. interference just comes out as sound on a stero b/c thats it's means of output, sound. on an ecu, interference might take the form of incorrect engine readings such as AF, Boost, Temp, etc. granted, said interference would only cause a momentary bad reading, but it could cause themto happen all in a row, or only when you go WOT, or anythign else. Thats probably where all the smoothness and response comes from. Interference in your ignition coil could cause small halfass sparks to fire at wrong time, causing all sorts of roughness, and the spark plug would then not be completely energized for when it was supposed to fire..

Ground loops dont just cause your speakers to whine, thats simply the most easliy recognizable manifestation of it. many other forms of ground loop interference could be detrimental to performance..

...and for 20-40 bucks and a couple hours of time, it seems worth at least trying fro yourself.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Hedonic Tread
[ why:
, I'm no electrical engineer, so let's say that's true, too.



Your admition above answers you own question.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by newevo8

Quote:

Originally posted by Hedonic Tread
[ why:
, I'm no electrical engineer, so let's say that's true, too.



Your admition above answers you own question.

Aw come on, his admition is a good qualifier that's all, his opinion is still very valid and you don't have to be an EE to see through a bunch of smoke

 

This might be of interest: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...hreadid=390536

I'm not sure I'm a believer yet, but I'll probably go over the stock grounding points and make sure they are ground properly, i.e. scrape off some paint and clean the grounding points. I have a feeling that will do just as much as the $100 grounding kits.

just my $.02

-anders

 

I created a home brew kit that closely followed the design for their kit. While there doesn't seem to be a big difference in my car, the throttle response seems a bit more precise; especially noticeable under 2k.

As a placebo test I gave my roomate a ride and told him I was trying a new brand of gas. He said the car seemed a touch crisper at low RPMs.

Nothing concrete, but for $20 in parts why not?

 

I found it greatly improved low speed driveability, and throttle response.

 

anybody have the mitsubishi diagrams for the us spec lancer anywhere? i'd like to make my own and see for myself.

 

Someone tell me if I'm off base here, but I was under the impression that a grouding kit more or less ensures that your car is running up to spec, as opposed to being a performance mod. As an EE major I can tell you bad grounding or bad connections of wires/signals can lead to disastrous results. I'm sure on a piece of high tech machinery such as a car, such precautions are taken so that short circuiting and such should not be an issue. However, with lack of additional grounding the system can be seen to take a minimal performance "hit."

Adding a grounding system might give you 5hp or something, but then that just means you were actually running 5hp short of what's to be expected.

It's an insurance tool to make sure all is well, but don't look at it as an actual performance mod.

 

This is my understanding, too, and one of the reasons I don't buy it. Think of all the R&D and manufacturing costs carmakers spend on squeezing even the smallest bit of power out of an engine. Think, for instance, of all the little things they did to the type r integra to make it more powerful (only 15 hp or so, as I recall) than the gsr (and the various things they did to the gsr to make it better than the gs). Every single one of them cost a lot more than this mod would have. True, as someone pointed out, car companies are out to make money, and if they can skimp on something, they will. But will they skimp on what for them amounts to a $0 to $10 fix for 5hp? No way. It just doesn't make sense.

So to summarize, here's my argument: A) The mod is useless because except in rare cases, the current ground is just fine and does not rob you of a single HP, and B) Even if those rare cases in which the ground isn't fine, 4-6 ground wires will not do anything better than just one.

Anyone?