I really would appreciate a very nice evo owner that intend to put a stone in this subject.
Buy a Ground system, put the car on the dyno = base line; then install a ground kit and put on the dyno again. The before and after dyno test is the only way to stop electricity subject, guessing, butt dyno etc...

Who is the GUY? ? ? I would do this dyno test but I do not have awd dyno here.

 

i have the grounding kit.....i notice no difference in anything whatsoever....
let me translate that.....
no difference in anything whatsoever.
end of story.

 

The problem is that the dyno time would be more expensive than the grounding kit. Your best bet is the take the word of countless owners that have felt a difference (myself included).

If you examine the theories behind the grounding kit upgrade then it makes sense that there would be benifits.

Basically you're taking the stock ground (iron) out of the equation and replacing it with copper. Iron has 10 times the electrical resistence of copper. So, less power is lost to resistence and more power is used for the intended purpose. For example, your headlights will be brighter because you have more voltage dropped across the filament.

You're also giving the electrical systems a direct path back to the battery. This removes current that would otherwise flow through the frame of the car. It's this current that creates the noise you hear when you hook a amp up to a bad ground. So less electrical noise means that your ECU is getting cleaner signals from your engine sensors....this leads to a smoother powerband.

So what's my experience? After I hooked up the grounding kit I felt a smoother powerband and brighter headlights. I could swear that my stereo sounds better but I can't be certain. Also, my car use to have an idle problem when A/C was on full. The idle would stumble and nearly stall at least once a month and in the middle of summer it would happen almost once a week. Since the kit it's only happened once in the last year.

 

yeah its unfortunate but most people dont care or cant tell small differences... some do.. then again some dont but THINK they do... i feel some cars will benefit from the grounding kit... when i installed mine, i noticed the stock grounding was pretty flimsey. is the stock sufficient enough for the flow? hmm who knows... the dyno wont prove anything since dynos arent accurate enough to measure such light differences like smoother idle, 1 or 2 whp or brighter lights. an electrician should measure the flow of the negative ions through the stock grounding path compared to the ground kit's copper wiring...

 

But huge amount of iron which makes the resistance very low. Resistance is inversely proportional to the size of the conductor which is why we all use big, fat wire to hook up our amps (at least until 48 volts becomes standard ). Idling problems with a bunch of accessories running is probably caused by the ECU not being able to idle the engine high enough to make the alternator spin fast enough to generate enough current to overcome the resistance in the stock grounding wire(s). Ohms law says an increase in current across a resistance will drop the voltage and with a lower voltage there is less current to run accessories. Re-grounding the block to the frame will reduce the amount of resistance and increase the current.

Granted, in my experience I've measured a 1/2 volt difference between the ground at a head unit and an amplifier ground point on raw steel on the frame in the back of the vehicle where the head unit was not an ISO DIN mount that screwed into a steel bracket and into a dash subframe. This never caused an adverse effect.

Every ECU has a built in voltage regulator that controls voltage and current to logic level chips. Most built after the 80's can tolerate 10 - 16 volts without any logic flaws. Higher current electronics (injector and ignition controls, solenoid valves, fuel pump, relays) are usually run with direct battery current or tapped off a higher current power supply in the ECU. It would be no surprise if there was a performance drop below 1200 rpm with the stereo cranked, lights on, A/C, wipers, etc. Unless your battery is in a horrible state, it will pull out most of the ripple from the alternator. If not, drop a 105 deg C rated 2000uF cap between the ground and B+ on your head unit or get a new battery.

All you're doing with a grounding kit is reducing the resistance between the alternator and non engine stuff so yes, lights will be brighter, idle will level out with a load when the engine is running, stereo may sound cleaner (some higher quality audio amps have PWM power supplies that make ECU's look very low tech). For this reason alone, as sure as the sun comes up in the morning, I'll be dropping some form of grounding kit into my car - especially with aftermarket amps in the equation. There's definitely a benefit for the accessories.

Consider too that the starter can draw a LOT of current - on the order of 5 times more current than it takes to keep the engine running. There has to be a substantial ground on the engine for that (check the amperage rating of the starter fusable link).

 

true but electron will always find the closest and most efficient path. evos DO have a stock grounding, so it wont necessarily always go through the iron block at all times. some of the grounding is on the tranny and some on the chassis, so saying iron is always the grounding means is wrong too. simply its safe to assume grounding will increase efficiency, although its wrong to assume ALL cars will benefit from an aftermarket grounding kit... it may also depend on the car's design.

 

I went to sunautomobile and couldn't understand if the ground kit replaces the stock wires or if I stick with stock wires and install the kit on another ground points.
I decided to install a ground kit, but I don't know if I buy from Ralliart, Sunautomobile or Lineage. Some suggestion?

 

same here bro. i tried to do that on one of our dynoday meets and dyno fee was $65 for 3 pulls. so not unless you got an extra change handy thats a good time to test it back to back.baseline testing then 2nd run with the kit installed.

 

I found two palces of dyno test:

1- Go to sunatomobile.com and see the dyno charts in the import tuner magazine

2- VW forum http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1138874&page=2


Some brand suggetion? Lineage, hyper ground system etc...

 

What, no Wombat grounding kit? check the signature

 

First off...gotta give and a to AbusiveWombat on three counts:

1) Not ripping people off. $40 for $39.50 in parts beats the heloutta $120 for $39.50 in parts.
2) Not being unrealistic about what to expect and not making false promises just to sell more.
3) Appreciating that electricity is lazy

I looked at the link from k270kmh...2.4% increase (dyno chart figures) with the grounding kit installed, but how can anyone draw a solid conclusion that the gain was from what appears to be a less than 5 minute grounding kit install?

Giving the benefit of the doubt, lemme throw a rhetorical underdrive pulley kit into the fray... alternator turns slower, mechanically reducing on the engine = more available mechanical power. (7% max gain from http://www.unorthodoxracing.com/dyno_evoVIII.html) Slower alternator = less available 'umph' from the alternator per turn of the crank? Would my gain be 2.4% with the grounding kit plus the 7% from the underdrive kit or would the lack of available alternator power to the coil make the upgrades cancel each other out? Would the measurements be repeatable to within +/- 1.2% every time?

 

Anyone knows if WRC cars have grounding kits?

Ah, I might get one myself, since Wombat is really selling them cheap... if nothing else, it sounds good and is one more mod on the list.
Will pass on the beer one night I go out

 

i remember you refuting grounding kits when i bought it, sash! hehe

 

I, in fact... am an electrical engineer... and most of you know what you are talking about.... The main thing is.. I hardly think anyone will 'notice' any difference using these kits, but if it makes the car feel smoother or faster to you.. then it is well worth the $20. It probably also makes the engine bay look cooler.

Just for arguments sake though.. even though COPPER 'may' be less 'resistive' than IRON, the total resistivity (it's really reactance, but we won't get into that) may or not be less with a wire... e.i. the resistance of something is proportional to the length of the item, inversely proportional to the area (cross section) AND of course a function of the medium. So a copper wire.. is NOT always going to be less resistant than a block of IRON.. even though the resistivity of copper is less than iron.

Further... if you have a wire with a resistance of 100 ohms.. two of these wires will create a resistance of 50 ohms. Three wires... will net you 33ohms.... Four wires will net you 25ohms.. and the five wire setup will net 20ohms (product over sum). Of course these wires are not 100 ohms.. but you can see... more is DEFINITELY better. Does it make a difference though?

Anyways... having said all that... does it work (ie. is it better, incrementally)? Probably.. is it noticeable.. probably not.

Just my $0.02.

 

I just installed Wombat’s Grounding Kit. My idle has returned back to 850 rpm. After I installed my Apex Turbo Timer my idle would hover around 1000 rpm – 950 rpm while idling. I had previously checked the Voltage Drop on the ground for the turbo timer, it was 0.00 volts.
In my opinion this was a worth while upgrade. By the way, I must be retarded or slow, the install took me 2 hours (but no problems).