Please, anyone who doubts what I am saying, take yourself and your EVO to Valero and fill it up, it makes it that much easier for someone who did listen to me to clean your clock on the highway when they meet up with you.

I can't believe the time I spend argueing with idiots with no experience and just poor input......................

This thread is ready to be closed. I didn't open it to debate.

 

It is amazing that someone with no background, education or experience in a subject will argue with someone that actually test these things on a daily basis. What is even more amazing, with just a small amount of research, they'd see the Phds' lab experiences matches yours. Yet unbelievably, here they are arguing against and offering you suggestions for test equipment for you to buy as if the $100k dyno you own and test on every day doesn't prove anything .

 

Their website has a technical document, but I'm not a Petro Engineer, thus the need to do dyno testing of which gasoline is best. Even though some of us are more automotive inclined here than others, in the end we are dyno numbers and results driven, thus the need to do dyno testing, as opposed to taking the word of Petro Engineers who establish their own standards for gas.

 

I can't believe how dense you guys are. David owns a dyno and test these things every day and says some gas is crap. Not only David, ask anyone that owns a dyno and they'll tell you the same thing, some gas makes more power than others. My experience on the dyno matches David's as I gained 20 whp switching from Valero. There's your dyno proof. The Phds that work for the auto makers test the same things in the lab and say some gas is lesser quality. There's your lab proof which you can't comprehend. Yet here on the world wide web are you guys that have absolutely no idea what you're even discussing saying you're not sure.

I can't believe we waste our time on this idiocy. I'm with David, close this thread.

 

Actually, this is exactly the reason why I am arguing this thread is that you expect that because someone who has experience in this area gives a definitive response and then that no dissenting opinion or debate should be given. Now don't get me wrong, I am in no way, shape or form sitting here and saying that my knowledge is beyond David's, because it isn't. In fact, it is nowhere close. I know some stuff about cars, but basically I'm an idiot when it comes to cars. However, I'm an idiot that happens to be educated enough to make my own decisions about what or what not to put in my car.

BTW, I did not make a suggestion that David test gas for our benefit. I stated that I would do that on my own, with local assistance. So before you strap on your 3 oz gloves, get your facts straight, or at least get the posters right.

And before you go calling people idiots, or after the fact, I never disputed the fact that some gasoline are much more reliable than others. Jeez, calm your engines down, robertaustin.

 

http://www.co.franklin.oh.us/auditor.../2006/fuel.pdf

USING HIGH-TEST GAS? ARE YOU SURE?
Legislators think Ohio should confirm octane ratings, purity
Published: Thursday, September 7, 2006
NEWS 01A
By Jim Siegel
THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH
When Ohio drivers push that button for premium gasoline, they can only assume that the high-octane, high-priced stuff is
actually pumping into their gas tanks.
Unlike 46 other states, Ohio doesn’t give anyone at the state or local level the authority to check whether the gas
coming out of the pump meets the advertised octane ratings, or if filters are working to keep water and sediment out of
the fuel.
“When you pump that 93 octane gas into your car, you have no way of knowing if it’s 93, 92 or 87,” said Rep. William
J. Healy II, D-Canton. “We need to make sure consumers are getting what they paid for.”
Healy wants to give county auditors the authority to test gasoline at the pumps to ensure that the octane ratings are as
advertised and to check for water or sediment that could damage engines.
Ohio, Pennsylvania, Alaska and Nevada are the only states that do not authorize gasoline testing.
“I think many Ohioans think we’re doing this already,” said Rep. Jon M. Peterson, a Delaware Republican and former
county auditor. “We need to catch up with those 46 other states.”
Under the unusual bipartisan bill, a county auditor — who already is required to check that a pump is distributing the
proper amount of fuel — can use new state standards for the gasoline.
The octane rating measures the fuel’s ability to withstand premature ignition. Fuel that bursts into flames too easily
causes engine knock. Cars equipped with higher-compression engines need higher-octane gasoline to run smoothly. The
average engine runs best on regular gasoline.
If the fuel is off by more than one octane point, based on readings from a portable tester and allowing for a second test
if requested by a station owner, a warning is given.
Subsequent test failures would result in fines starting at $250, up to $1,000 for a fourth offense. Failed tests would be
made public, Healy said.
Healy said he’s heard of situations where station owners will ask a delivery driver to put a lower-octane gas into the
premium tank.
There is no penalty in the proposal concerning water and sediment — a decision made after negotiations with the oil and
gas industry. Healy said filters usually take care of those problems before they reach a vehicle’s tank.
Summit County, Ohio’s only county with a charter form of government, is the only place where the auditor has the
authority to check gasoline quality.
Franklin County Auditor Joe Testa said he also has been testing fuel quality about 3,000 times a year since 2001,
though he has no authority to do so and can’t take action if the fuel fails to meet the proper octane level.
Failure rates the first year hit 15 percent, Testa said. Since then, the rates have fallen to 3 percent to 5 percent a year.
Though he can’t do anything except inform station owners of the results, Testa said, he has compiled plenty of data to
show state lawmakers that this is a problem that should be addressed.
Under the bill, counties that choose to do the tests also must pay for them. Testa said the cost is minimal because
auditors already are checking the pumps.
“Station owners generally appreciate that we are verifying their octane levels,” Testa said. “For the most part, merchants
want to treat customers fairly as well.”
But Jennifer Rhoads, general counsel for the Ohio Petroleum Marketers and Convenience Store Association, said there
are already fuel-testing requirements at the federal level, and many companies do their own quality checks.
“I think this adds an unnecessary level of testing,” she said.
Rhoads said the association disputes the accuracy of the portable testing device called for in the bill, and calls flawed a
1999 study by the Ohio Department of Agriculture that found a failure rate of higher than 12 percent in sample gasoline
testing across the state.
“The high overall failure rate compared to failure rates of states that have strong fuel-quality regulatory programs is a
concern,” Agriculture Director Fred L. Dailey wrote at the time.
jsiegel@dispatch.com
Illustration: Photo appeared in newspaper, not in the archive.
Photo caption: BEN MARGOT

 

cfdfireman, THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU.

YOU are THE man.

 

I'm sorry, you're arguing about a subject which you admittedly know nothing. You complain that you don't trust the experiences of two different people, one of which probably spends some time nearly every day on the dyno, regarding the poor quality of certain fuels and ask for something "scientific". I offer you the "scientific" research and you complain you can't understand it and continue the argument. Yeap, that pretty much qualifies you as an idiot.

BTW, don't waste your time on the dyno. Just call different dyno operators and ask their opinion. I can give you 3 in this area and they will all tell you the same thing and it won't cost you a dime. Of course, I realize who I'm discussing this with, so good luck on the dyno.

 

Well, if I'm ever in Ohio, I will stay away from Valero for sure - even though my sister inlaw works at Valero in Aruba. I'm not going to assume Valero fuel at other locations doesn't conform to the lable though

 

It's crap in Texas (home of Valero btw) and I never run it in my EVO after seeing first hand the dyno results, but I run it in my CRX all the time. When your engine is rated at 90 hp, I'm not sure good or bad gas really makes much difference.

 

Now that is funny!

 

I agree.I don't understand why some people just want to get into a pissing contest with someone who was just trying to help everyone by letting us know the results of some suck *** gas.The man is a professional car tuner and builder with more knowledge about tuning than most of us combined would ever understand.I think some people just like to get under someone elses skin just because they have nothing better to do. for the info!

 

So, because I admittedly don't know anything about the subject I shouldn't question it? Well I guess I'm not in the USA anymore.

Look, I gave you my dyno test of Valero gas which, based on the graphs I have, has produced 360hp. I also stated that when the tuner tried to raise boost, it created a knock issue so he left it alone. So at this point it could be two things, boost or gas. I don't know and that's why I'm willing to test. Also, that website you gave does not present any scientific data. It's a marketing tool and gives a page with technical info. Besides, if Top Tier gas is all its cracked up to be, why don't ALL car manufacturers endorse it and why do gas manufacturers have to meet their standards? What if a gas manufacturer doesn't want to be on the Top Tier Gas list? However, this is a different argument for another day.

And have you also considered that David is looking at this through the prism of Ohio? Based on the article posted by cfdfireman1, it looks like the advertised octane issue could be something only happening in Ohio, but not in Arizona. The Arizona Department of Weights and Measures tests octane ratings, among other things. If this is the case, it may not just be Valero which is skimping, but other gas companies as well. This is the problem with just taking one person's word and not doing your own independent verification. And don't mention Top Tier Gas again. There are several big name that are not on there (such BP and Mobil) so having that certification doesn't mean much.

Once again, this is not a knock against David because I have TREMENDOUS respect for what he has done in on the Evos, but because he says it doesn't necessarily make it so.

 

cmb, You seem to miss the point, what a shock, only idiots argue about that which they do not know, yes even in America.

I've had enough. All the evidence is out there to prove the point if anyone wants to find it.

 

No, robertaustin, it is you who are missing the point, but it is telling that regardless of which forum I go to when people can't hold their own in debates they result to using ad hominem attacks. At least David was respectful enough not to go that route, but the same cannot be said about you.

At least we agree on one thing. I've had enough as well.