What proof do you have of the HTA wheels being Borg Warner?

I believe FP stated they designed the wheels on their own?

Just something worth mentioning, the twin scroll gets to peak torque sooner and holds torque considerably better above the torque peak then the HTA setup. I could see the amplitude differences being in something outside of the turbo system, including dyno differences, cams, or other differences. To me, it looks like the TS is delivering better spool and better top end, the holy grail of turbocharging.

 

At least you should read the thread and have some basic idea of what you're discussing before running your mouth.

First, your dead wrong about this Dyno Danamics dyno and everyone but you seems to know this. The DD at The Shop has been shown repeatedly to read like a DJ. Of course, you'd realize this if you'd taken only a few minutes to read this thread.

Second, there are at least 3 vendors on here doing TS and I'm sure they'll gladly sell you just the parts you need. This seems to be common sense, but I guess that would be giving you too much credit.

Finally, there's nothing wrong with a Green, but you realize that turbo is actually a bunch more expensive than a BB twin scroll turbo. Of course, if you're happy with the power of a Green, by all means buy the Green. But remember that the Green is a 49 lb wheel and the 35 is a 63 lb wheel. That's a huge performance difference. It's up to the buyer to figure out which meets their power needs.

Try next time to do more reading and you won't appear quite so foolish.

 

It seems like multiple shops are now offering twin scroll, however my question is does one shop have a superior design in their twin scroll manifold over another? When Geoff told me about the RD Full-Race in developing their Twin Scroll Manifold i was very impressed. They really put a lot of work into however some of the other shops seem like they didnt put that much time into their twin scroll design. I could be wrong and dont want to put any shop down, but I am curious too see if one shop's design spools faster makes more power than another shop.

 

Last time I checked Butcher doesn't make turbochargers. Now you may be talking about the Forced Performance Variation of a 35R CALLED the HTA 35R.

I would tend to agree with you on the mismatch.

Two words for you.....Correction Factor.
In the old days you could claim that a DD would read uber low...That is no longer the case. Shops are using 1.1-1.3 for correction factors to make internet jocks happy with inflated dyno numbers.

Now if the HTA could actually last longer than a week with hard driving, we may find out if it can do as claimed....until then its still a pipe dream.

Oh yeah and the guy that is under this post addressed the rest of what I wanted to say.

V
Just slapping some runners together doesn't constitute R&D, your correct. In November of 07 I mentioned in a thread that we were going to start the process of developing a product that would incorporate a TS Mani and Turbocharger. This process was to be a verification of what works and what doesn't.
Our R&D process has taken us into May, with a final product release 30-40 days away. We would not be releasing a product if the routine was not sound.
I would venture to safely state that we have done some home work on the subject and will not release something that has not been proven on paper and in practice.

 

LOL
Your a mouthy one..Well if you only listen to what people told you instead of interjecting your $.02 maby you would have a clue... Dont tell me you bought 1???

First the Green which is making the same power as a twin scroll 30r and almost the same as a twin scroll 35r so who realy cares how much lbs/min it flows if you cant use it...

Second a HTA 30 and 35r kit can be purchased from $3400 and $4300 with the tubular manifold... It may spoll 200-300 rpm later then the TS but makes more power. Ya let me guess BR is fudging there #s to.. dont think so. They may be using a well built car but still putting down the power wheres the #s for the TS..?? let me guess there arent any...

Third as for thr green costing more well if you ger every option for the green it may cost $2000 as apposed to spending $6800+ on a twin scroll.

Finally has there been any resaerch on the vertical flow intrecooler looks like it wouldnt be anything but more restrictive than anything...

 

No, you post such stupid crap, you get a responce like mine. Again, if you don't know, it's better just to keep your mouth shut.

A Green cannot make the power of a HTA 35, a TS 35 or a regular 35. You don't honestly believe this? You can figure 60 to 100+ whp difference depending on the set up and fuel. Call anyone that sells them and they will tell you the same. Again, nothing wrong with the Green if that's the power level you want.

For our edification, please tell us what research you've done. Surely you've actually tested some of the TS turbo kits since you're so willing to pass an opinion. At least give us your education or background so we know you're not just some internet punk kid talking trash (that's all your previous post was).

There are only a few TS setups out there as of now. Give it time and you'll get all the results you want. Realize however, there is no incentive for anyone not making a TS turbo kit to do any testing, so don't look for any results from those guys. Buschur's been building turbo kits for 5 years, so be patient or at least smart enough to not pass judgement until testing shows one is better than the other. BTW, this thread at least shows how similar cars compare.

It's interesting that everyone is so quick to dismiss TS kits without even testing them, yet everyone that's driven, tuned or tested one has been impressed. Check with some of the guys on here that have tuned TS kits and see what they think. They have nothing to do with making them and can give you an independent view. Ask FR or DTM what their research has shown. They make both an open or TS kit, so I'm sure they can provide you some test data.

I don't have a TS kit, but l would love to see my 35 spool 300-400 rpm quicker.

BTW - I've tested a vertical flow IC and it wasn't more restrictive (I guess that's just more of your baseless and useless speculation). I had an IC from a big name shop on EVOm that I was very happy with, but was damaged during a wreck. The vertical flow spooled about 150 rpm quicker and reached the same boost. I can't compare the cooling capabilities as there were too many variables, but I have not noticed my intake temps running any hotter at the track.

 

DTM well said, however i have one question how come your kit uses only one wastegate while ETS and Full-Race use two? From what Geoff told me a proper twin scroll kit should use two wastegates why? i dont remember the exact details hopefully he can chime in here if not ill get him too.

 

bump for response!

 

[QUOTE=robertrinaustin;5596184]No, you post such stupid crap, you get a responce like mine. Again, if you don't know, it's better just to keep your mouth shut.

A Green cannot make the power of a HTA 35, a TS 35 or a regular 35. You don't honestly believe this? You can figure 60 to 100+ whp difference depending on the set up and fuel. Call anyone that sells them and they will tell you the same. Again, nothing wrong with the Green if that's the power level you want.

QUOTE]

EXPLINATION FOR DUMMIES

Im not arguing that a green can make more power than a 35r or a 30r...If you dont understand let me explain it again...for the slower people...
From all of the dynos put online the TS 30r hasnt made any more power than a green from what ive witnessed. With that being said how do you expect someone to pay that kind of money for a ts turbo kit...???
Are you kidding would love to buy a 30r that spooled like a green but as for now I havent seen anything more than green type numbers from the TS 30r.
The 35r may be putting down more but currently dosnt justify spending the extra money as far as im concerned.

 

Evolutionboy67 I'm quoting Tom@ETS



To benefit in spool from the twin scroll package, you'll need both the equal length manifold and twin wastegates to keep the pulses separate all the way into the turbine. Using one wastegate combines the pulses thus negating the twin scroll effect and using an unequal length manifold puts the pulses at the collector on either side at different times, again negating the benefits of a twin scroll design.

 

I'm sorry but your argument is awful.

Take a look at the mods again? If anything the IX has the upper had as far as power mods.

When did clutches add power?

 

TO ALL

Knowing now that Freddy's Dyno reads like a DJ,
If I handed you both of these dyno sheets and you did not know which one was the Twin Scroll before looking.......would you be able to tell? It would be hard.

All I'm doing here is asking questions.

 

See, now that's a reasonable response. No more of your speculation or guesses about what you think might happen, just posting your opinion about what you value.

As I've said, if the Green makes the power you want, by all means, buy the Green. However, the cost are much closer than you realize to a FR kit. Build up a Green install for an EVO 8 on the Buschur site and you'll spend almost $4k matching everything that comes in the FR kit. Now, add to that a couple of Tial 44 mm waste gates , dump tubes and a custom TS mani and the FR kit cost isn't bad.

As to why anyone would pick a 3076 turbo kit over the Green, the answer is very simple, upgradability, though the 30-50 whp may also be a reason. With Buschur's (T3 equal length kit), DTM's, ETS', AMS', Full Race's or any other vendor's turbo kit, you can change to the T3 turbo of your choice by only switching out the turbo. This gives you hundreds of turbo options with a very easy swap.

Finally, let's get back on the discussion about twin scrolls. Let's hear from some of the shops that have tested a 35 sized TS set up, maybe the BW 256?

 

Let's see, one makes 200 lb ft at about 4100 rpm and one makes it at about 3600 rpm. That's a pretty drastic 500 rpm difference. Can you guess which is which and which would you rather drive if they made the same peak power?

 

I don't think you're considering the area under the curve. Remember, bigger peak power figures are for bragging rights (dyno racing), while bigger average power figures are all that matter if what we want is to make the car go faster.

In short, the difference is that the Green will sign off at a relatively early point in the rpm range due to its small compressor, and the torque curve will begin to drop like a rock. The same car with a 30R in any configuration won't have that problem. Ultimately, the 30R has the potential to deliver significantly more power than the Green, but whether or not any turbo is brought to its full potential depends upon numerous other factors (as you are well aware). There should be little doubt that a properly equipped TS 30R should be capable of 600whp.